NOISE! Not sure of the cause, pedal or wire...

RebelDogg

RebelDogg

New member
Hope this is the proper forum. First the gear I'm using. Rather give too much info than not enough:

I am using a M-Audio Fast Track Pro with Guitar Rig/FL Studio. I have a Digitech GNX3 floor processor, Crybaby 535 Wah pedal and am using my Strat.

I don't think my amp is an issue here as I've taken it out and still have the issue, but it's a vintage Gibson Maestro with no ground. My floor is all tile and I need to wear slippers and have my pedal on a piece of carpet or I'll get shocked and hear noise. I don't think that's an issue here, though.

Here's what's happening. I got a couple Livewire insert cables today (STP-203) from Guitar Center. When I use it with my Wahwah there's no problem. However, if I plug in my GNX3 I get noise. On some (mainly hi-gain) presets I get a high pitched squeal, but some others it's a lower pitched sound. If I change presets the noise stops. If I unplug anything in the chain or make a sound with the guitar, the noise starts up.

When running the "normal" way (Gtr<->GNX<->FT Input) it sounds fine. It's only when using the insert cable that I'm getting the noise.

I've never used send/return wires before. It works fine for my wah but are they not designed for use with processors? Would a higher quality wire help here (these look a little cheap to me... maybe not shielded well enough) Could it be my pedal, even though it only does it with the insert wire?

I just would like to know before I drop money on a $40 Monster cable or something. GC only had these little cheap ones so unless I find one locally I'll have to order online.

My plan was to use the GNX on one insert and the wah on the other (I didn't know if turning the GNX off would kill the signal... It does. Boo...) Am I wrong in what inserts can be used for? Are they simply for simpler things (tuner, compressor/limiter, mod pedals, etc?)
 
I.m a little confused as to where you would use an insert cable with that equipment. Typically, inserts are used with mixers/interfaces that have an insert jack. Normally, if you wanted to use a piece of outboard gear with a mixer, you would need to take the signal from the mixer to the effect, then back from the effect to the mixer. An insert jack has the in and out in the same jack. So you only have one jack to the mixer (insert jack) but an in and out jack to the effect.

Can you explain how you are plugging things in (signal chain)
 
Washburn100 said:
I.m a little confused as to where you would use an insert cable with that equipment. Typically, inserts are used with mixers/interfaces that have an insert jack. Normally, if you wanted to use a piece of outboard gear with a mixer, you would need to take the signal from the mixer to the effect, then back from the effect to the mixer. An insert jack has the in and out in the same jack. So you only have one jack to the mixer (insert jack) but an in and out jack to the effect.

Can you explain how you are plugging things in (signal chain)
Click to expand...

The Fast Track Pro has two inserts on the back panel:

fasttrackpro_front-rear.jpg

I'm running an insert cable from the "Insert 1" position to the pedal. "Tip" going into "Guitar IN" and "Ring" to "Left OUT" as the FTP manual says Tip=Send Ring=Return.

If you're not familiar with the Fast Track Pro, it's a USB audio interface.
 
My mistake,
Ok, you got it all wired right. It could be that the signal is too hot. Normally, as you mentioned you insert a passive device such as a hardware compressor, delay etc. I wonder if the GNX3 has a preamp so you are inserting a preamp on a preamp? Do you find the signal much hotter than just using a line in?
 
No, other than the feedback type noise it sounds fine. Actually, when I play the noise pretty much goes away. I need to plug it in again and double check that... but yeah I think the noise stopped when the guitar was played and I know it stopped if I changed presets. I tried dropping the output level on the pedal but only lowered the noise.

Although now that you say that I'm wondering if I should have hit the "Instrument/Line" switch on the front... When I go in through the front with the GNX3 I switch to "line level." I figured to keep it on "instrument level" since it's the guitar straight in. There's also a pad switch. Didn't even occur to me to try that till just now. I'll see if it works, but I'm not sure it would. It wasn't clipping or anything.

Wondering if this wire is just getting noise from having the in/out wires running next to each other like they do. Not sure how good the shielding is in these wires...
 
Just so I understand, you are plugging your guitar into the instrument in, and have the GNX3 as an insert effect?
 
okay, none of that helped, but it's also not doing exactly what it did earlier... which is weird.

Now there is a lot of noise, but not the feedback noise I had before. It seems to be clipping/distorting. Clean sounds aren't as clean as they should be and the distortion settings sound the worst, with the most noise. Noise is uneven, as it it fades in and out randomly. If I turn the guitar's volume pot all the way down, the noise is reduced but still audible. Unplugging the guitar results in noise reduction but you can still hear it. Unplugging from the pedal kills the noise completely.

Weird that it's a little different than it was earlier...

I don't know if I can post audio on here but I can record something and post the noise if it'd help.
 
Okay... gets weirder... Just noticed that when I scroll a web page I can hear it in the noise... But only if the page is scrolling. Like, not if I just scroll the mouse wheel off the web page. Also, when I highlight text I get a strange noise.

The FTP is USB... weird...

Add: Noise is worse in FL Studio, but the effect from the mouse is subdued, but still there.
 
Is all your gear powered from the same outlet? You could be getting noise from equipment being plugged into separate circuits in your room. Try putting all the main stuff on the same outlet and see if it goes away.
What kind of computer monitor are you using? Old CRT's can create noise with some pickup configurations.
 
There are a million things, speakers, power, wires, equipment. Test them all one by one. Swap cables, plug everything into one outlet, insult the equipment from the ground (sounds like you have a pretty strange room), turn your speakers off and use headphones...just try to isolate the problem by changing one thing at a time and see what happens. Noise can pretty much come from any electric, magnetic, or cabled thing you have in or around the signal chain.

Don't change a bunch of things and hope for the best, isolate the problem.
 
Thanks for the responses. I don't think the problem is in the outlets, but everything is on one strip. I'm thinking it's either the GNX is too hot to be used in the insert jack or the insert wire is not shielded well enough. All I can think of since everything works fine when going through the front (line in) jack. The only way I get noise is if A. I'm too close to the speakers/computer or B. GNX is going into the insert.

I'm considering trying to get an adapter to take two mono plugs and convert to one stereo and use that as an insert, using regular guitar wire instead of this little insert wire. Not sure if it'll help but it's worth a try I think. If not, I'm sure the adapter could come in handy anyway.

I think the fact that I was hearing noise while using the mouse (which is USB) while having the GNX plugged in is an indicator that it may be the problem. As Washburn up there said "you're inserting a preamp on a preamp?" I'm just going to have to hook the GNX through the front, not a big deal I guess. Works fine that way and I think I can wire it so I can record dry in one line and GNX in the other. We'll see if that works...

Now the other insert is free for a future whammy pedal or whatever.
 
RebelDogg said:
My floor is all tile and I need to wear slippers and have my pedal on a piece of carpet or I'll get shocked and hear noise.
Click to expand...
Fix this or everything else will be a lesson in futility...

Or buy some slippers for your amplifier...
 
I've been saying for years I was going to have a ground put on that old amp... just never did. But I have some scrap carpet under everything so that's not an issue, really, noise-wise.

One day it'll get into a shop and get that done, though, along with my other old (not sure if it's old enough to be "vintage...") Gibson solid-state amp. Just need to get around to planting that money tree. Didn't work when I buried pennies but I'm going to try quarters next time and hope for the best.
 
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