Noise Level at -63db?

darkecho

New member
I just bought balanced cables to connect my keyboards balanced outputs to my Delta44s balanced inputs... yet I see and hear noise in my recording program at -63dB

I thought balanced cabled ommitted noise?!?!

I just did a comparison between balanced and unbalanced cables, the unbalanced gave me noise at -60dB...

does this figure seem right? I was expecting more than what seems to be a meager 3 decibals difference in balanced/unbalanced cables...
 
I remember hearing balanced connections can make a 6db difference, although I could be wrong.

If it's just the keyboard going directly to the delta, then the only thing I can think of is the keyboard has a lot of self-noise as mshilarious said.

I've also heard some people had noise issues with the delta but that was only because they didn't have things configured/hooked up properly.
 
Hmm but then why would the level of noise change between the two different cables...

The cables im sure will transmit nearly identical copies of the signal, its just how much additional noise they pick up... unless perhaps the keyboard itself produces -63 decibals of noise and with an unbalanced cable it picks up an additional 3db...

hmm how can i find out for sure???

I suppose I could compare listening to headphones from the keyboards outputs versus the computer, what if I went throughmy SPDIF output? would that contain any self noise?

I just listened with headphones at different spots. First i listened with headphones via the keyboards output i am using, dead silent, then I listened via the deltas outputs, and the only time i heard noise was from output 1 or 2 when the preamp was plugged into 1/3 or 2/4 respectively...

otherwise there was no noise from the delta.

then i tested from my HP4 headphone amp and it made noise regardless, the same kind my monitors were making. and when i plugged the keyboard into the delta, the noise rose juuuuust slightly for each output, mabye like a max of 1 db total, so slight that i had to check plug and unplug multiple times to confirm that the noise was increasing.

so so far the only thing that adds significant noise was my preamp when plugged into the delta, otherwise the delta was silent by itself and the keyboard was silent by itself (when i plugged headphones into their outputs)

I then unplugged the monitors from the HP4 and plugged them directly into the Delta to see if the monitors would cease making noise, but they made the same nosie regardless of what they were plugged into (and even if they werent plugged into anything they still made this noise that i recorded with my condensor mic.

The clicking you hear at the end is my spacebar to give you a sense of relative volume, the mic was 1 inch away from the tweeter.

Monitor Noise Sound Clip

then I turned off the monitors completely and in adobe audition the volume was now hovering at -66dB with my balanced cables, i unplugged the HP4 from everything and pulled the wall wart out of the surge protector and that didnt help at all... so all i have now is my computer - delta - keyboard

i even unplugged my mouse and keyboard to see if they were causing noise and they were not, but interestingly, i found that when I UNPLUGGed the USB cable that connected my keyboard and computer, the level of the noise went up to -63dB.

I think the USB cable is grounding the keyboard or SOMEthing, because it accounts for a -3dB change in noise volume. unplugging it causes the noise volume to increase.

i then changed the input ports on the delta and the volume stayed the same.

judging by the monitors ability to continue providing noise even when they werent plugged into anything makes me think that their noise was different than that of the noise i am seeing in audition. so that will be a seperate issue.

anyways, the noise is genereated between the keyboard, cables, delta, and computer.

when I unplug the keyboard, the noise dissapears from the decible meter in my software, so I suppose that rules out that the computer is making noise in the program...

so whats left for me to check????

next thing i am going to do is send the signal via digital SPDIF and see if there is any noise, because I am pretty sure that it shouldnt pick up any interference noise, and it should rule out the delta being the problem

I am still confused as to why the USB cable accounts for a 3dB drop in volume of noise when it is plugged in. sounds like it is somehow helping to ground maybe..

the volume on the keyboard also had no effect on the noise level.

-66dB is the lowest I have got it so far.
 
Last edited:
darkecho said:
...The cables im sure will transmit nearly identical copies of the signal, its just how much additional noise they pick up... unless perhaps the keyboard itself produces -63 decibals of noise and with an unbalanced cable it picks up an additional 3db...
That's the general idea behind balanced cable. I'm surprised you'd get even that much difference. (Long runs? Bad environment?)
 
well i just tried two other cables in my stack, they are TRS and both got worse than my monster unbalanced cables... which is odd....
and its still odd that my USB cable lowered my noise when plugged in..

it also seems that my volume lowered when two cables (balanced or unbalanced) are plugged in versus just one...

i am beginning to suspect maybe theres some grounding issue here??

what do you guys get as your noise level?

-66dB still lowest...
 
darkecho said:
i am beginning to suspect maybe theres some grounding issue here??

what do you guys get as your noise level?

-66dB still lowest...

Running my old Korg T3 keyboard directly into a Lynx L-22 soundcard, I meter between -100 to -114 db of noise. Running it into my Delta 66, back out of the 66, and into the Lynx (two different computers), it comes in at
-90 to -100db.

Ground issues usualy show up as 60hz noise.
 
AHA!
i found out the source of some of my noise.

it appears that there are several dimmer switches around the house that cause noise when turned on..

i must eliminate them. how do i do it?
 
darkecho said:
AHA!
i found out the source of some of my noise.

it appears that there are several dimmer switches around the house that cause noise when turned on..

i must eliminate them. how do i do it?

install a switch. :D
 
that is the only solution? turn the lights off or not have dimmers? what about a power conditioning unit, or even a UPS?
 
darkecho said:
that is the only solution? turn the lights off or not have dimmers? what about a power conditioning unit, or even a UPS?
Much, if not most, of the noise is in the form of RF - radio frequency. As such, a power conditioner will not help. The noise is coming through the air, not the AC.

G.
 
can televisions and cell phones, playstations or alarm clocks cause this RF interference?!

I gues the best way to do this would be just to turn the dimmers all the way off, as long as the light is off, it wont emit RF right?

i cant switch them because its not my house haha
 
darkecho said:
can televisions and cell phones, playstations or alarm clocks cause this RF interference?!
Just about any electric/electronic device can emit some form of noise but most of them are quiet enough to not have to worry about. CRT-based TVs can sometimes be problems, it depends upon the quality and design of the unit.

But standard light dimmers are notorious for this because the rheostats on which they are usually based are by their nature very noisy devices.

If you can't switch them out with solid-state dimmers, best you can do is turn them off and use alternate lighting.

BTW, also stay away from old-school florescent lighting. The new energy-saver bulbs are usually OK, but older florescent tube fixtures with big ballasts in them can be noisy as well. And most definitely stay away from neon beer signs and the like. Those'll get into you computer, your guitar amp and your nightmares if you're not careful ;).

G.
 
ok so i think i am just going to cut the power to the whole house and run my computer from a generator....


Ill have to get a few lamps or change my ceiling fan, its got a dimmable light on it...

the hall light right outside my rood is dimmer, the living room has two dimmer switches (they are at the other end of the hallway) the hallway the other direction leads to a staircase with a dimmer switch and the room that the stairs lead to has a dimmer switch... there is a dimmer in at the entrance of the house and just about every other light switch panel in my house has a dimmer switch......

UGH!!!

Mood lighting makes for moody electronics.. how big of a radius should I be shutting off to eliminate noise from my computer?

how far does the RF usually reach?

also, if you were me, how would you feel about just watching the decible meter on the computer and stop turning off dimmers when the noise dissapears... or is the noise stll going to creep in noticably even though its not showing up in the meter?
 
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