No Volume in Cakewalk

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Hi, I am new to this forum thing but I have a problem I am hoping someone out there in Forum Land can help me with. I can't get good quality volume out of Cakewalk. I am using Cakewalk Music Creator 2002. I have an Audiophile 2496 Soundcard along with a Behringer Eurorack UB802 Mixer with a Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz Processor with 512 RAM and an 80 Gig Harddrive. As soon as I try to get enough volume it distorts and redlines. The volume is very low so when I burn a CD with the recording I have to turn the Stereo Volume way up to hear it properly. I am using Band in a Box to create the music and a Good quality Mic to put in the Vocals. It's mainly the vocals that are too low. I can make the BIAB music file loud enough as it has good digital quality even though too much and it will also peak. Can anyone help?

I also have a latency problem when I want to monitor as I record. I have the setting on the fastest possible setting but I still get a delay in hearing the vocals as I am recording. Any suggestions would be helpful.
 
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I'm not too sure about the redlining but low volume problem, but perhaps with the latency issue, you should not set it to the fastest possible, but should ease off on that latency setting to allow the computer to process the sound at a more steady rate. If it's set too fast, then you are asking your PC to do sometihng that it is not able to do. Ease it off and it may work better.

When you say that your signal redlines, do you get a really loud sound from that? What kind of db level do you get on a normal recording? Also, some mics, like condensers need a 48v phantom power source, and some even require a boost of 12db to bring the signal up to 'unity' - proper level. What kind of mic do you use? A condenser?
 
Thanks for your reply. I tried setting the Latency setting slower but it makes it worse. The setting is designed to bring it as close to real time as possible but it isn't quit close enough and it's like having an echo in your head when you try to record. It should be in Real Time so that you can hear your actual recording as you are doing it. I might need a different driver. I have an email into my soundcard company but no response yet.

As to the Redlining, when it redlines it distorts. The volume is louder but you can't make out what it is as it clips and has a metallic type of distortion that really sounds bad. As to db, in Cakewalk the VU Meter starts at 54 on the left and decreases by 6, e.g.: 54, 48, 42, 36 etc. and ends at 6. It has one more segment which is the minore redline and then it reaches the major redline which would then be below 0 db. Below 6 db it starts to distort and below 0 db it really distorts. It might be interesting to note that Behringer recommends recording at 0 db on their mixing board. The mixing board has LED lights to indicate the db level. When I get it to 0 db there is so much distortion in Cakewalk it's impossible to have it as a recording.
 
I have almost the exact same hardware specs as you (mine's the 602 mixer instead of the 802). I use SONAR 4 Studio edition software, so that's also different. I'm having no trouble getting decent levels into SONAR.

I know that Behringer recommends having the level up pretty darn high coming from their mixer, but I usually don't run it quite as high at that stage as they recommend since I find the sound from the mixer starts getting too harsh. Have you tried just plugging headphones into the mixer to see if you are distorting at that very first stage? If so, try bringing down the gain and making up volume with the channel volume. If that doesn't do it, try a different channel. Behringer mixers are rather notorious for having problems, although I haven't had any with mine yet luckily. (We get what we pay for, right?? :( :rolleyes: :D)

If your mixer isn't the problem, then have you opened up the Delta Control Panel and figured that out? There you can set the input/output levels. I think my input levels are maxed out (or darn close if not). You can play with your output levels to adjust volume, but as far as getting the sound INTO the system, those don't really matter (except of course for monitoring). In the Patchbay/Router tab, if I remember correctly, I have it set to Monitor Mix. Check these things and play with them a bit to see if that corrects the problem.

As far as monitoring latency goes, you could try to do direct monitoring using the mixer. You can send the aux output to the soundcard and then turn the aux send up for the channel you are using. Send the outs of the soundcard into one of your stereo channels and don't turn up the aux send on that one (or feel the full wrath of feedback brought to bear on your ears). That will let you adjust the level of the stereo mix relative to the new channel signal you want to record. Using this method will give you zero latency, although unfortunately, you are monitoring totally dry. One way that I've handled this is to choose to monitor the input for the recording track in SONAR but put a Reverb effect on it at 100% Wet with 0 predelay. The latency is there but it only is affecting the reverb and acts like a predelay.

Hopefully you can get this working. If still having problems, let us know.

:)
-Jeff
 
I really want to thank everyone that helped me with this. It is now 3:00 AM and I am tired but happy. I solved the problem. Cakewalk has a little function under Edit/Audio called Normalize. What this does is it will increase the volume up to a point not exceeding Maximum Redline. I recorded with the volume down a little so as to prevent any distortion and then I used the Normalize Function to bring up the volume and it sounds good. I just get a little excess from the Reverb which I can tone down.

Thanks everyone and goodnight!
 
You have not "solved the problem." The Normalize function will improve your issue but it's not the right solution. It just makes an inadequate signal level louder. But it increases the level of the background noise just as much, which will be very significant with a low input signal.

You've got to get your signals into the computer properly. Did you investigate the Audiophile's control panel as suggested?

What are you plugging in through the mixer, and how is it connected and routed? How are you plugging the mixer into the soundcard?
 
I bring the signal into the computer with enough volume to begin with and then use the Normalize function to bring it up a little and balance it out. I don't get any hum. Seems pretty clean.

The Audiophile soundcard doesn't seem to allow me much as Cakewalk seems to override it anyway with it's own volume controls. I plug the mixer into the soundcard via line in.

Thanks for your input
 
I would like second AlChuck's advice. You have not really solved the problem. You should be able to control the level coming into Cakewalk, and I would recommend that you stick at this problem until you find out how you do this. I would question your claim that Cakewalk overrides the Audiophile's volume control, since I can say for sure that this is not the case for me (and for lots of others).

Definitely get into the Delta Control Panel and start moving some of those sliders and see what happens. I wish I were in front of my DAW at the moment to give you specifics, but I'm not. You should see sliders for something like Master Stereo Out, Wave Out, SPDIF Out, Wave In, and SPDIF In. (not sure if those are the labels exactly but should be close). You will want to concentrate on the Master Stereo Out and the Wave In/Out. Play something (like a CD) without involving Cakewalk and mess around with the Master and Wave Outs to get a good level. Ok, that takes care of the outs, although you may need to lower them a bit for use with Cakewalk since I think its audio engine tends to run pretty hot.

Now you want to raise that Wave In slider since you're getting a very weak signal coming in. Try recording some stuff and see if your signal level is better. Now I believe that in order for these sliders to be used you need to select Monitor Mix or something like that under the Patchbay/Router tab like I was saying, so make sure that is done.

I would also caution you against using Normalize, since like AlChuck was saying it raises any signal noise along with the signal. In fact, I am hard-pressed to think of any valid reason for using Normalize off the top of my head. Even if this noise is virtually undetectable for 1 track, when you start to get a bunch of tracks with a little bit of noise in each, it will start to add up. You should strive to get a good signal level recorded at the tracking stage. Of course, in the digital realm, you need to avoid clipping, so give yourself a bit of headroom. Typically, a good spot to shoot for is recording average level at around -6 to -12db. This will give you room for phrases or notes that go a little louder without the dreaded digital clipping.

I can understand throwing in the towel with a workaround at 3AM, but regroup and attack again when your fresh. It shouldn't be too hard to get working - it's probably just something that is getting overlooked. Let us know how things go and you have further questions.

Good luck! :)
-Jeff
 
I will try a few more things but I am satisfied with the quality. I only use Normalize on the Vocals. In the Audiophile Control Center when I select the Monitor/Mixer setting under the Patcbay/Router tab I get no sound in Cakewalk. Also on the Soundcard there is no hook up for the CD in my computer so I can't play CDs from it I have to send it from my stereo into my computer or go from my stereo through my mixer to the computer.

In cakewalk, when it comes to noise there is virually none and I remove all the flat spots to ensure no hum on the Vocal Track. One thing I do different than a lot of people is I only have 3 tracks, one for vocals, one for vocal harmonies and one for the Band in a Box wave file. BIAB handles all the music and is very, very clean. No noise especially with the VSC3 compiler. I'll let you all know what happens. I will experiment more.
 
Ok - I am at my DAW now, so I can speak more accurately about the "M Audio Delta Control Panel". The fact that you can't hear any sound in Cakewalk when you choose "Monitor Mixer" under the "Patchbay / Router" tab is troubling. Click over to the "Monitor Mixer" tab. Make sure that your H/W In 1/2, WavOut 1/2, and Master Volume sliders are all up near the top. I believe as a default they start out all at the very bottom. Here's a pic of my control panel Monitor Mixer tab - your levels will likely end up being different.

:)
-Jeff
 

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Hi Jeff

Mine are just a little lower than yours but I have experimented with them at different levels and they don't do anything it seems as Cakewalk 2002 overrides them or just doesn't depend on them I'm not sure which. As to the Monitor/Mixer setting I will try it again but a couple of days ago I tried it and when I did I had nothing in Cakewalk. No sound what so ever. I will play with it again to make sure I wasn't dreaming.

Question; when you adjust your levels in your Delta Control Panel does it immediately and directly affect the levels in Cakewalk Sonar? I used to have a Soundblaster and when I got this sound card, it was a learning experience on what a quality card was all about. I couldn't just plug the old mic in and go to town. I had to buy the Mixing board and a whole bunch of cables so that I could play music through my stereo into the card and from my mixing board etc. So there could be something I am missing but I just don't see what it could be.

When you play back your tracks and you go into the control panel can you adjust the play back volume? Mine doesn't adjust anything. It doesn't matter what source I am coming from. I have attached a picture of my Delta Control that shows you where my VU meters are as I play a Wave file from my Music Match Audio Program. Notice that the Volume Controls are at Zero yet I am getting lots of volume as per the VU meters and the sound coming out of my stereo. They just don't do anything. Is this weird or what?
 

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Hooo boy... a picture sure is worth a thousand words...

Compare your Master Volume sliders to guttadaj's...

Cakewalk's volume control only affects the output of the software itself, it does not control the software. So if the card's output set too low, you'll be cranking your input and distorting but barely hearing anything. That explains why you hear nothing when you select HW 1/2 -> Monitor Mixer in the Patchbay/router.

Try turning your Master Volume up all the way and turn your inputs down. Then start turning them up to find the point where distortion sets in.
 
Hey Alchuck, you missed what I was doing here. My master volumes have always been up when recording. I was just showing that I could playback with all volumes set at Zero. When I record it doesn't matter where I set the Volumes, master etc. they don't change anything. They don't affect the input level. I can turn them right off or turn them right up no difference.

In writing the above something twigged in my memory. I have now set it to Monitor/Mixer. I couldn't get any read on the VU Meters when I did this in Cakewalk. For some reason, maybe computer memory, the VU Meters (Cakewalk), wern't indicating anything, now they appear to be. I don't know what's happening so give me a little time as I am going to be checking this out further... I just checked something. In Cakewalk you arm each track for recording then you click on the main record button to record. When you Arm the track for recording you can set your levels by viewing the VU Meter for the track and by providing input. This way you can set your input levels before recording. I now have it set on Monitor/Mixer and I can't get any VU reading until I click the Record button to start recording. This is why I thought I wasn't getting anything when it was set on Monitor/Mixer.

I think I'm two steps ahead here but I've got a bit of figuring yet. I'll let you all know what happens.
 
I think you guys are going to be really confused after I tell you what I have discovered. No matter how I set it in the control panel of the soundcard it does not in anyway affect the input levels in Cakewalk but when I increase the volume at "H/W in 1/2" then it increases the volume of monitoring the input. In other words when I increase that volume I can hear my self in my headphones in real time when I am recording. Now this is good but that's all it does. Question; does anyone know if the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 soundcard is a Full Duplex soundcard? I would think it should be as I can hear out put when I am recording so it stands to reason that it is but I did a test using Windows Sound Recorder and according to the test it isn't. You are supposed to be able to open one Sound Recorder and record something then open a second instance of the recorder and record from the first one without getting an error. I always get an error.

For right now though I am happy using the Normalize Function as a work around as I am getting some good quality but I am going to be contacting M-Audio again with a bunch of questions. I never heard back from them before but I will try again.
 
Sorry for not understanding what you were doing when you took your screen shot.
The Audiophile is most definitely a full-duplex card.
 
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