no REAL TIME effects??

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tsphillips

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Apparently where Cakewalk 9 is concerned "Pro Audio" is a bit of false advertising.

I was expecting the changes from my anciet Cakewalk to Cakewalk 9 would have included real time reverb and chorus and eq.

But no, it seems I still have to apply an effect, wait for 45 seconds for it to load before I can hear it and spend literally hours just trying to find some usable settings.

This is VERY disapointing. And there is nothing remotley professional about it!

Sadly, my PC just will not accept Cubase or even Cubasis. With those programs you can apply reverb, chorus, delay, limiters, etc. and turn the various dials and effect the sound right then while the song is playing and tweak it until it is just right. It is just like using real life rack effects, even better.

I would have thought Cakewalk would have been able to do this by now.

Am I missing something here?? Is there any real time reverb in my new, and expensive Cakewalk 9 and I just don't know where to find it???

If not, if all I get is this load and wait and listen and reject and start back at square one to load and wait again, can someone PLEASE recommend some presets for me to try for the following:

1) solo acoustic guitar with subtle reverb

2) solo acoustic guitar with more effective reverb

3) vocals with some reverb to fill it out a bit

4) chorus that can make a guitar sound richer without sounding warped

thanks a lot.

At least Cakewalk works on my Pent III Win 98 with no system problems, no digital skips, no resetting all my PC audio settings just to get it to detect my sound card. So it is still the only recording program that WORKS on me PC all the time.

I just wish it had real time FX like pro studios actually use.
 
Picky, picky, picky! ;)

First of all, Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 is now about three years old, and has not been developed further now for two years. Or, I should say, its development continued into a new product that had enough changes they decided to change its name -- SONAR, which is now on version 2.0. At the time PA9 was developed, it was not possible to have real-time effects unless they had some proprietary driver scheme like ASIO, which they ould have had to license from Steinberg, one of their chief competitors. They decided, rather than devlop ther own wrinkle on low-latency Windows drivers, to depend on the new low-latency driver model that Microsoft was developing then. So you are using old software.

The "pro studios" that you talk about probably use Pro Tools, which is a different (and far more expensive) animal than host-based recording software. Or, they use outboard boxes for most of their processing, like they always did.

Maybe the name "Pro" is a bit of a marketing-speak stretch, but whatever made you think that any software-only solution that runs on a Windows or Mac host and sells for well under a grand would be capable enough to replace all the outboard equipment in a "real" studio?
 
ahhh

yes, too bad they wont use asio if it is the only thing that actually WORKS.

But are you saying that SONAR DOES have real time effects or not?

I would have no problem buying Sonar if it will work and will have real time effects too, or at least effects that are better than what CW9 has.
 
posted this by mistake

never mind
 
Last edited:
TS,

Just what kind of machine are you working with anyway? I would like to know why your PC "won't accept" Cubase etc...

Is there is hardware issue or lack of RAM? Or what?

Update when you can.

Cuzin B
 
well

it is a Dell Pent III 600 Win98

I was trying run Cubasis on 128 and one drive - assured by Stienberg USA techs that they use the same thing and it works great.

Well it did not work great for me. It would have digital burps and skips, about 50% of any takes were scrambled junk have way through the play back with no warning it was happening while I was recroding, and there as a LOUD clug clug clug going along with the computer clock's second hand which made recroding int he same room with the PC virtually impossible.

Then I added the second hard drive and another 512 of memory.

Writing to the seperate drive seemed to get rid of the clug clug clug and replaced it with a click click click, not nearly as loud but still there.

But something else happened too, when I recrod on Cubasis now - to one drive to the new drive - there is a loud statically popping sound. It is only there when I am singing or talking or playing my guitar. When I stop playing and there is silence the popping stops. You dont hear the popping WHILE recording, only in play back

I tried EVERYTHING. Different mikes, the sound card in a different slot, every button I could possibly push on my sound board, etc etc.

Then I discovered that the popping is not there at all when I use Cakewalk or Cakewalk 9.

Basically I am trying to find what is the best recording program for me to use and I will buy it. Steinberg offered me the full Cubase for $399 - since they don't offically upgrade from Cubasis.

I would be happy to buy SONAR 2.0 or even ProTools LE - but ProTools Free will not even work period. I can open it, but there is no tab to pick my sound card under hardware like the manual says, and when I try to do New Project it asks where I want to save it and then freezes when I hit save.

So Cakewalk seems to be the only thing that wants to actually work on my machine, only I really hate the fact there are no real time effects.,

All I want to do is record some Leo Kottke style solo guitar pieces and some multi tracked songs with vocals and more than one guitar.

And in two years of trying I have nothing to show for it.

Sigh
 
ts - well that's a start. A tad underpowered for a pile of real time effects (no matter what app you are using).

One more very important hardware question for ya - What kind of soundcard are we talking about here? I'd like to get the "burps and skips" under control and then move on from there...

Update when ya can.

Cheers,

Cuzin B

PS - ChuckU - That's harsh man....:)
 
So Cubasis is a more "pro" software even though it won't run AT ALL on your rig? WTF are you smoking?

Like AlChuck said, the technology of PA9 is about 3 years old.

Also, I would give up on sw FX and go to outboard if you need everything in "real time". I can't believe you have spent the last two years on this and been unable to figure that out.
 
TS - I need to make a distinction here between "real time effects", and "input monitoring". Cakewalk PA9 will do the former, but will not do the latter. Sonar will do both.

Real Time Effects is the ability to apply an effect non-destructively to an audio sample while you are listening to the audio sample. It sounds to me like this is probably what you want, and PA9 will do this. You simply need to patch the effect into the FX bin of the track. Then open the effect and start the playback of the track. At that point you can tweak away to your heart's content and hear the results in real time.

Input Monitoring, otoh, is the ability to hear an effect WHILE you are recording the track. In other words, you are recording a vocal, and you want to hear your voice with reverb. Or you are recording a guitar, and you want to hear the guitar with an amp sim plug-in. Cakewalk PA9 can not do this. Sonar can! However, even with Sonar, in order to use this feature you will need a computer with a good deal of horsepower, a good sound card and WDM drivers for that sound card. Otherwise, the latency will be significant and render input monitoring unuseable.

IMHO a 600 MHz PIII will not cut it for Input Monitoring. If that is what you want, you will need Sonar AND a better CPU.

However, if you want Real Time Effects, you've already got it in PA9.
 
return of well...

input monitoring would be nice but definately not required, I often record without headphones when I am doing the intitial guitar track, and this often all I am recording anyway - one guitar, straight through to end of the tune, no overdubbing.

Basically, I just want to be able to play back the tune, select an effect or two - say reverb and or chorus - and WHILE IM LISTENING to the track alter the effect - say depth or echo return speed - and be able to hear the effect change, etc. as I dial in the exact effect I want.

In Cubasis you hit the FX button the mixer and pick the FX you want - before you hit play or after - and then you play with the dials until you get what you want. There is like a one second lag at most when you adjust an effect. In other words it pretty much works like real rack mounted effects do. So yes that makes it considerably more "Professional" than what I have been getting out of Cakewalk.

With Cakewalk 9 I go to a pull down menu and I see Effects and there are two choices "Cakewalk"and one other (Im at work so cant remember the exact options), under either they list reverb and chorus and flange etc.

If i pick reverb, for example, I get a window showing the various settings. If I select that effect it then takes like a LONG time to load as I watch the bar slowly creep across the screen. I then play the song, hear the reverb, which is way to much for what I want and I have to Undo it and try again. They have a one second sample so you can hear it before it you apply it - but it will only use the first one second of the track, which typically consists of me walking over to the stool to sit down and play.


This makes it all extremely time consuming.

But it sounds like I have been doing it wrong. It sounds like dachay2tnr is saying I need to go through that loading only once, and from that time on I can access the loaded effect another way and use it while the track is playing.

Now THAT I can live with. I have to go to a show tonight to it will be Tuesday night before I can try it.
 
ts - Again...what kind of soundcard are you using?

Cheers,

Cuzin B
 
Basically, I just want to be able to play back the tune, select an effect or two - say reverb and or chorus - and WHILE IM LISTENING to the track alter the effect - say depth or echo return speed - and be able to hear the effect change, etc. as I dial in the exact effect I want.
Click to expand...

Yes, you have this ability. It's been awhile since I've worked on PA9. I think you can do this in Track View, but I don't recall the steps. So here is how you do it using Console View.

In Console View, directly below the track name, you should see a rectangular black area. If you right click with your mouse in this box, you should get a pop-up menu with one of the choices being "effects." Choose the effect that you want.

At this point, the effect will either open or the name of the effect will appear in the black rectangle. If the latter, double click on the name to open it. Now if you click on the play button you should hear the track being played WITH the effect. If you start changing the settings you should hear the result of those changes (there will most likely be a lag just like you experienced in Cubase. This is mixing latency. It can be improved with a better system/sound card - but generally is tolerable when your just trying to get a good sounding setting.)

Now, TS, <warning! dachay is about to climb on soapbox> you really should spend some time learning the program before you complain that it's not professional.

When I was in Little League baseball I had this bat that REALLY sucked because I could never get any hits with it. Funny thing is, the dumb bat seemed to work OK when one of my friends used it. Never could quite figure that out.
 
doh

sorry I forgot to mention that part

the sound card is the Steinberg Project Card (that is what it is called Project Card) it is a 20 bit out 18 bit in card with two stereo rca ins one 1/4" plug with a mike preamp that I have never used, two stereo rca's out and a digital out as well.

It came with Cubasis as a package.

I also have Sound Blaster Live! Value as my default card as well.

I want to get one of those 24 bit cards that have the external box so I can have more than two inputs, but I do not know which one to get yet.
 
Re: return of well...

tsphillips said:
If I select that effect it then takes like a LONG time to load as I watch the bar slowly creep across the screen.
Click to expand...

You computer is no powerhouse, but I'm surprised it is taking that long to load an effect. On my computer and using PA 9.0 effects popped up instatntaneously. Sounds like you may have some other issues going on here. There are lots of tweaks you should try to free up system resources and minimize potential hardware conflicts. For starters, make sure your sound card is not sharing an IRQ, diasable all unneeded hardware, reduce your video bit depth, and turn off all background programs. If you search, you'll find other tweaks you can try too.

If you tried all this already, or even if you haven't, you could also just upgrade your system. A 1.0 Ghz Athlon and mother board won't set you back much and will serve you well as long as you don't use too many CPU-hungry effects. You could probably scavange many pieces from your old computer. After 2 years of fighting, maybe it is time to declare your computer the victor and just suck it up and buy a new rig.
 
Hold on. I just reread your last post. Have you tried disbaling one of your sound cards at a time and seeing if the problems persist? Soundblasters are known to have crackling issues with some motherboards (the chipsets actually), and in general some soundcard/motherboard combinations just don't play nice. I'd try one card at a time and see what happens.
 
It sounds to me like you're using destructive effects, not real-time. When I use Guitar Tracks Pro, the only time I get a processing bar is when the actual audio data is being modified. When I use real-time effects, there's no loading delay at all. I'm using a Dell PIII 800, by the way.
 
I think Jimkal nailed it. I've never seen a processing bar in Cakewalk except when applying an effect permanently.
 
well good

this all sounds very good.

My initial point was IF there are no real time effects than calling it Pro Audio would be a bit like false advertising.

But I have not been able to find any other listing for effects other than the one under one of the main pull down menus - and that results in the bar loading thing.

I shall try this other suggestions asap. thanks.

I HAVE tried to learn the program, when I search for Effects under the Help glossary all I get is stuff about midi patches.

So I guess what I AM seeing and trying to use IS the destructive effects - though it seems odd that those are easily found under the main pull down menus, but no other effects seem readily apparent.

When I tried to find effects I found that one menu item, which subs into Cakewalk and some other name, both of which sub into long lists that say reverb, chorus, delay, etc. So that looked an awful lot like the main place you choose and apply effects.

But no doubt it directly effects the data, as the bar showing the recorded track changes to a very different looking thing ones the effect has loaded.

So I will gladly try to find these other options you have all brought to my attention.
 
Good, sounds like the problem has been correctly identified. The solution is very easy. In PA 9.0, I usually used the console view for mixing (the window that looks like a mixer). Right click inside the black box at the top of each track fader and you'll see the options to patch in a real time effect. You can also patch in real time effects to the aux busses or the main busses the same way.
 
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