No Patches Available-Help!

  • Thread starter Thread starter RecTech
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RecTech

New member
Gear:

eMac-System 10.3.9
Korg X5D
Digital Performer 4.6
Roland UM-1 interface


The situation:

Upgraded to DP4.6 and when getting the MIDI gear set back up to do a demo for a student, I can not pull up any patches in the "patches" or "default patches" boxes.

I pulled up Audio MIDI setup and did a test setup.....got signal going both ways. When I try to input data, I get accurate notes in the Quickscribe window.

In short, it appears that everything is functioning as it should with the exception of being able to load the patches.

What gives?
 
After 8 years of using Pro Tools I recently added Digital Performer as a front end sequencer. I am amazed that such a fundemental thing like a patch librarian is so woefully addressed in the software.

Do you have a patchlist file for your Korg??

Have you looked into Unysn or Cherry Picker as a applet midi librarian??
 
Joseph,

You'll have to talk to me like I'm 6 years old......I'm pretty good with the audio aspects of DP4, but since I don't really like MIDI I've managed to be blissfully happy to let the software work (as it has done in the past) and not be too concerned about more advanced things.

I only teach MIDI to my audio class to the extent that they are aware of what it is capable of doing and the basics of out to make it work.
 
RecTech said:
... but since I don't really like MIDI...I only teach MIDI to my audio class to the extent that they are aware of what it is capable of doing and the basics of out to make it work.
Click to expand...
This is too much.

You keep your audio class in the dark about midi because of your own ignorance and then brag about it on a web site devoted in part to helping midi users solve problems. You've got your nerve calling that an 'audio class' if you leave your students needing to supplement your class with another one from a midi-literate instructor. Like it or not midi is here to stay, from it's simplest form (playing one keyboard from another) to the most complex continuous controller applications that can fully automate an entire studio or live performance.

Here are links to two good articles on midi basics - part one and part two. There are three more articles in the series on the same web site when you're done with those. They're 10 years old now, but midi is still the same as it was then so all the info is perfectly current. This is the best series I know of - clear, concise and easy to understand. You should print these out for your students if you don't want to read them yourself.

Now to your question. Joseph Hanna says he has used an application called Pro Tools for years to record audio, but because of Pro Tools weak midi support he began using the same sequencing program you use, Digital Performer 4.6, to handle midi sequencing. He acknowledges that DP 4.6 is weak in the area you are concerned with and suggests you use an external add-on patch librarian to solve your problem. Here are links to Unisyn and Cherry Picker. Cherry Picker is a shareware application.

He also asks a pertinent question - do you have a patch file for your Korg? That would be something that you saved into your previous version of DP before you upgraded --- otherwise your patches may be gone, unless they're in the synthesizers internal memory.
 
ssscientist,

Wow, thanks for that wonderfully warm welcome there and the constructive approach to helping me solve my problem so that I can help my class get through this glitch. :rolleyes:

It's not a matter of remaining willfully ignorant...if that we the case I wouldn;t have asked for assistance.....it's a matter of scope and sequence in a one semester elective class in a high school where we have to cover everything from cables to mastering. In an 8 week quarter, we get exactly one week to include a discussion of MIDI.

So, here I come to a place to ask for help so that when class starts in January I'll have the studio in good condition for the kids and perhaps I'll have a better understanding of why the problem occured, allowing me to transfer that knowledge to the students.

I hope that you're not an aspiring doctor because your bedside manner stinks. Please feel free to place me on your ignore list so that I won't be boring you with my banal, ignorant questions as I will be doing the same for you so that I won't have to listen to your insulting condescending responses.

Good day to you.
 
In short, it appears that everything is functioning as it should with the exception of being able to load the patches.
Click to expand...

Load into DP or change via DP? Did it work before? You can only dump patch names via midi sysex if the synth supports it and you would need a librarian that supports said synth
 
altitude909 said:
Load into DP or change via DP? Did it work before? You can only dump patch names via midi sysex if the synth supports it and you would need a librarian that supports said synth
Click to expand...


altitude,

The patch windows in DP (both "patch" and "default patch") say "no patches" when I select the pulldown menu.

It's always worked on a plug and play basis before, even through the upgrade from DP3 to DP4.

I guess I should clarify further and say that all I want to have are the GM patches for now. Never had to deal with librarians before, what has changed in my setup? What further troubleshooting can I do?
 
RecTech,

Try Cherry Picker. Be preparred to spend a little time (or more) configuring it to work with DP but in the end it will work. Also search the web for someone who has posted a downloadable patchlist for your Korg.

On another note. You should feel comfortable posting your questions here no matter the content (excluding banned subject matter of course). I make my living doing audio post here in Hollywood and consider myself lucky to work with and around some of the most talented engineers in the country. Not a day goes by that someone doesn't drop a new term, phrase or technique on me that I've not seen or heard before. Perhaps I'm just getting old now but I'm NEVER afraid to ask someone what it is they just said or did.

That said however (and being careful not to think or speak for anyone else)
perhaps it was the position that you are a teacher and "don't like midi" that raised sscientist's shackels.

Of course you must know that midi as a protocol (and used correctly) is a powerful, unsurpassed medium (sans MLan) and should be taught to anyone considering a career in this business. Virtually ALL the primary upstart film and television composers here are heavily reliant on midi sequencing and the fantastic tools it provides.

The old notion that midi somehow takes the musician out of writing and composing is just simply WRONG. Listen if you will to the Van Helsing soundtrack by Thomas Dolby.....

Better yet have your class listen to it!
 
My guess is that you should just set the device to GM midi and it should just list the GM patches.
 
altitude909 said:
My guess is that you should just set the device to GM midi and it should just list the GM patches.
Click to expand...


Well.....I'm not sure why anyone would want to reduce their keyboard to the often vastly inferior GM sound set to solve the problem of a lack of patchlist??
 
Joseph Hanna said:
Well.....I'm not sure why anyone would want to reduce their keyboard to the often vastly inferior GM sound set to solve the problem of a lack of patchlist??
Click to expand...


In this case, it is to demonstrate to the kids the basic GM list and then contrast it with the patches available from the particular instrument. Plus, I'd be happy to just have the thing working at all until I get up to speed on Cherry Picker.
 
altitude909 said:
My guess is that you should just set the device to GM midi and it should just list the GM patches.
Click to expand...


My thoughts as well, but for some reason I can't get the X5D to go to the display for GM......I'm going to spend some more quality time with the manual this afternoon and tomorrow morning.
 
OK....took the Korg out to the other studio which we've not been using because the MOTU interface had to be sent off for repair (firewire port not responding).

Plugged the same keyboard in, with the same interface, DP4.6 and....PRESTO....all X5D patches appeared in the pull down menus on the MIDI tracks. No patches in the library/audio folder and no Cherry Picker installed.

Could the Firewire console from the MOTU 828 in the other studio be causing some sort of problem? :confused:
 
Joseph Hanna said:
perhaps it was the position that you are a teacher and "don't like midi" that raised sscientist's shackels.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

And 'Rec Tech' --- from your needlessly reactionary response I assume you are not going to even take a cursory look at the midi basics I provided links to. That's a shame because by keeping your students in the dark you are only hurting them.

A week of class time devoted to midi? If you knew your stuff you could have the good students whipping off masterful sequences with many continuous controllers and soft synth automation in that time.
 
OK....tunnel vision is a bad thing.

After getting the gear working with the other eMac yesterday afternoon, I decided to get to school early today and approach it from being a computer related problem rather than a software or keyboard problem.

It turns out that it seems to be a matter of permissions for the student accounts being able to access the libraries folder properly. When I logged on to the parent account, rather than the student account, it worked and both the GM and the X5D patches were available.

I'm going to work through lunch and see if it works better on the student accounts.

Thanks for the heads up on Cherry Picker, Joseph. I downloaded it and printed out the documentation and will see if we can implement it.
 
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