no more ADAT's - what about self contained hard disk recorders??

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ruebarb

ruebarb

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Guys, I had an ADAT crap out on me again tonight. (2822 hours of head wear, I don't think so - internals went to hell) -

So I want to look at some of the internal hard disk based recording systems that can be rack mounted and hooked up to an analog board, like the Mackie HDR/96 (sp?) - The Tascam 2424, and the Alesis ADAT HD/24 (I know, I know, but it looks a bit more cool then the other two)

Any recommendations? right now, Mackie scores high on my list with the graphical editor built into the unit - but I'd really like recommendations, insider tips, and so forth.
 
Not to disparage your recommendations, but what would your reasons be for recommending the Tascam? I only know that their analog card is about an extra 1400 added to the cost of the unit. I don't know if they have the graphical editing capabilities of the Mackie either.
 
I think the name of this thread describes an inevitable trend, but what about the cost? Don't standalone digital recorders cost way more than an ADAT most of the time?
 
ruebarb said:
Not to disparage your recommendations, but what would your reasons be for recommending the Tascam? I only know that their analog card is about an extra 1400 added to the cost of the unit. I don't know if they have the graphical editing capabilities of the Mackie either.



If it's only about cost..then by all means, go with the Alesis. But if you want flexibility AND *great sound*, I would go for the Tascam.
 
ametth,
how do you know the quality of the alesis? It isn't due out until may!
 
response to Dobro's question

Actually, Dobro - I'm not so sure when you factor in the number of channels/tracks. In either case, my factor for thinking of switching is more out of frustration - when you want to record a demo, you want to record it NOW!!! now when you waste two hours clearing error messages out of your ADAT every 3 weeks.

Stand-alone Tascam, (for example) - 24 channels for $3500 + up to $1500 for I/O cards (if you use analog like me) = $5000 - it's almost the same for the Mackie unit

3 ADAT XT-20's (I have two) - $1700 on average for a total of $5100 - plus three ELCO cables at about $150 each = $5500

Or let's look at recording. 90 minutes of 24 track recording - $200 if you get a decent hard drive price. (This is a sample - the Tascam can use regular HD's, but you may have to use the propritary drive bay for Mackie - I don't think you can put your own HD in it.

You'll end up paying only about $90 for the equivlant in tape, but let's say you don't use all the tape tracks. (maybe only 17 out of 24) - on harddisk, those spare tracks go back to the bank. On ADAT's, you're just wasting tape unless you get creative and put folk songs on the last four or five tracks of the third ADAT.

It's a pretty close call , but when you've had tape dropouts, sync errors, mangling issues, and the sheer maintenance of those machines like I've had, the HD issue looks better. I don't have any real illusions about transferring this stuff to a big time studio when I get a big time record deal (yeah, right) - and when they have built in Digital editing on most of them, there's no more shuffling over to a DAW in many cases. (You do with a Tascam, but the software is free. Mackie builds their monitor and keyboard port into the box).

I'm not sure the new Alesis unit is going to be any good, but I can see why it would be cheaper. It doesn't have the modular options of the others. All you get is 1/4 analog connections and ADAT Lightpipe - no modules for Tascam MTRS or other formats - so they can build it cheaper, I suppose. I've got to admit, though - I like the concept that you can use your ADAT sync cable and sync it up with ADAT's. That's just cool.
 
Dig deeper than price.

Wallycleaver said:
ametth,
how do you know the quality of the alesis? It isn't due out until may!

Well, I'm making assumptions (yeah, I know). While I cannot say how the alesis will sound, I can guess. At that price point, they're probably going to use the same converters as the ADAT's (ewwwww). I've compared the Tascam and the Mackie, the Tascam sounds much better. I know the Tascam will sound better than the Alesis too (let them prove me wrong). I can sit here and compare and contrast the different HD recorders, but this aint english class. I challenge you to actually take some time and look at the features of each unit and tell me which one you would buy, price not a factor.

And at this point, it's still vaporware in my book. Alesis doesn't have a great track record with product releases.
 
Sorry ametth -- gotta ask...

...what is it you think is wrong with the Alesis converters??? (Not talking about the LX, of course, but the XT20 and M20 ones - both of which are considered to be quite good by many, including me)

(I'm not picking a fight - just want your opinion!) ;)

Bruce
 
Bruce, I know your not picking a fight :)..to me, and this is just my dumb opinion, those converters just dont sound right to me. I cant explain it, but they just aint right :)

To tell the truth, I've never heard the converters in the M20, but if they they're the same ones as in the XT, my opinion stands. YMMV.

This thing is selling for 2000, now we all know what desiging something to a price point is about. I'm sorry, but at this price, corners have to be cut. I've emaild Alesis for more information on this recorder to confirm my suspicions, I'll let you all know what I find out.
 
corners cut

Not to be redundant to my previous posts, but here's why I think the Alesis is cheaper - and I've done some research on the website

1. No expansion capabilities for I/O. the Tascam has at least 3 different cards for different I/O options. This thing is hard-coded to 1/4 analog input/outputs and the ADAT lightpipe (which, in my honest opinion, is kinda cool compared to the thick ELCO cable I use with analog recording) - so if you have Tascam cards on your digital O2V board, too bad. buy new I/O cards for the board, cause you ain't getting them for the HD recorder

2. Lots of R&D already done - this thing looks like it's going to just be ADAT hardware and code, but with Hard Disks instead of tapeheads. It'll be completely compatiable/syncable with your current ADAT's via ADAT Sync cable - I don't think they rebuilt the concept from the ground up like Tascam did, just copied the stuff from the Masterlink and ADAT into one unit

3. No 96Khz recording - The Mackie and Tascam offer 24 tracks at 48khz, or 12 tracks of 96 KHZ recording (at least with a future software update) - with the Alesis, you're stuck at 48/44.1 Khz - (so far - I haven't seen anything on the website offering it)

4. No graphical editing possibilities. You'll have some internal editing capabilities, but not the visual of the Mackie or the MX-View of the Tascam. (heh heh - maybe they'll come out with the ADAT-superPCR) - Not a big deal to some, but if you ever listen to Wilco's "Via Chicago" and hear the bridge, where they basically took a computer and cut the mother into many pieces and glued them back together (a la George Martin) - you'll understand how cool an option like this can be.

5. At this point, I've seen no mention of virtual tracks.

I'd say with all of that up there, the first three aren't really negatives in my book (more of an "ehhh" in my book -no 96khz recording needed yet) - EXCEPT the last two. I want to do visual cut and paste, and I want virtual tracks. I like the idea that I could have 40 tracks in my home studio and so forth with this one extra unit. But you know, I don't have any qualms about blowing the extra money on a better unit just to get it right.

I'm still tossing between the two, with Ametth's recommendation (having tested them both, apparently) weighing in favor of Tascam. My only hesitation with that is that it looks like with the Mackie unit, all I need is a monitor and keyboard, whereas Tascam wants a seperate box (apple or windows) for the MX-View software. Plus I have a mega-far off dream of getting the digital 8-bus, at which point it'd be easier to intergrate with Mackie.

Man, long topic of discussion....many variables...whew - maybe I should just go back into the studio the old fashioned way. Lord knows, when I started this disaster, I thought it would be cheaper. That's naive talk now.
 
Re: corners cut

ruebarb said:


I'm still tossing between the two, with Ametth's recommendation (having tested them both, apparently) weighing in favor of Tascam. My only hesitation with that is that it looks like with the Mackie unit, all I need is a monitor and keyboard, whereas Tascam wants a seperate box (apple or windows) for the MX-View software. Plus I have a mega-far off dream of getting the digital 8-bus, at which point it'd be easier to intergrate with Mackie.


Thats pretty cool until you think about it. What if you own two Mackies? Thats two monitors, two keyboards, two mouse. With the MX, you can see all the machines on one copmuter, and edit across all mcahines.

And as far as intergrating with the D8B..what do you want? the MX uses TDIF, ADAT, AES/BEU..take your pick!
 
It's worth mentioning that you can plug a monitor into the Mackie. IMHO, that's worth something. (have you seen that little screen they've got in there now? NO WAY could you really edit on that!)

That Mackie HDR is officially on my "screw-up-Kelly's-credit" list. Hell, ANYTHING that will record more than 16 tracks simultaneously is on that list.

Somebody mentioned ADATs going down in price (the whole "abandonment" thread a while back). Anybody wanna clue me in on how much two would cost, used? With a BRC, I suppose...
 
Ok. Sorry about that last post. 15 minutes later (surfin web pages), I like the Tascam. I'm gonna shut up now, wait to read what y'all have to say about these machiners...

:D
 
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