No midi output in Sonar 5

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Flet

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I'm using Sonar 5 with an M-Audio Firewire 410.

Now, I can't get midi to play back at all. I have selected my Midi Output devices out of the options menu, so it's not that. I don't understand why midi stuff just won't play. Any ideas? What more infor do you need from me?

Added below:

O.K.

Here is all the info on my system/setup

I'm running an Athlon 3500 with Windows XP. I have an onboard soundcard (NVIDIA) but I purchased an M-Audio FireWire 410 that I use for recording and all playback on the computer. Basically I don't use the onboard soundcard.

I have two recording software packages. First, I use Sony Acid Pro 5.0 and I've been trying to migrate to Sonar 5 Producer Edition.

In Acid I can play midi files (created by the program ANVIL) no problem. If I take that exact same .mid file in Sonar I get no sound. Now, I've also checked my Midi Devices and I have both the FireWire (M-Audio FW 410 MIDI) selected as input and output as well as an MPU-401 selected. (I'm not sure why I can't select the Microsoft Midi Mapper).

The Firewire 410 is only attached to the PC by the firewire connection. The speakers are attached to outputs 1 and 2.

Again, all midi sounds work fine in Acid or even with Windows Media Player, but NOT in Sonar. Any help is very much appreciated (you have no idea how much). I figure I can't go further with drums until I get this problem fixed first.
 
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Does the Firewire 410 have a midi synth in it? I'm guessing it doesn't.

Try using a DXi.
 
dachay2tnr said:
Does the Firewire 410 have a midi synth in it? I'm guessing it doesn't.
Click to expand...
You're right, and win the price! :) (Which is a new picture of Kari Traa...)

Sonar 5 comes with a General MIDI DXi. Try using that. :)
 
moskus said:
You're right, and win the price! :)
Sonar 5 comes with a General MIDI DXi. Try using that. :)
Click to expand...

O.K. I'm deadly new at this "midi" stuff. Honestly, I don't know what a midi "synth" is or what it does if you can help. Also, what do you mean it "comes with a General MIDI DXi"? What is that?

What I don't understand is if I create a small .mid file (I have anvil studio which can creat midi) and it plays fine on its own, and in Acid Pro, but NOT in Sonar 5.

All your help is appreciated, thanks.
 
Flet said:
O.K. I'm deadly new at this "midi" stuff. Honestly, I don't know what a midi "synth" is or what it does if you can help. Also, what do you mean it "comes with a General MIDI DXi"? What is that?

What I don't understand is if I create a small .mid file (I have anvil studio which can creat midi) and it plays fine on its own, and in Acid Pro, but NOT in Sonar 5.

All your help is appreciated, thanks.
Click to expand...
OK. Midi, as I assume you are aware, is only a set of instructions. What note to play. How long to play it. Etc. Etc. To create sound, the instructions have to be sent to a synth - a device capable of generating sound using the midi instructions.

A synth can be hardware (e.g., external keyboard, or a sound card with a built in synth) or it can be software.

One software synth comes with Windows, called the Microsoft GS Wavtable. This is probably what you are using to get sounds from Acid Pro and Anvil. However, I believe this will only work under the MME driver type. Most likely in Sonar you are using WDM drivers or ASIO. Hence the wavetable doesn't work when you are in Sonar.

Bottom line is that you need a device to play the midi sound.

The good news is one is supplied with Sonar in the form of a software DXi. To use it you will need to setup an audio track and patch the DXi to the audio track. Once that is done, route the output of the midi track to the input of the DXi track. Voila! Sound!!
 
O.K. Thank you, I will look more into what you have mentioned.

dachay2tnr said:
The good news is one is supplied with Sonar in the form of a software DXi. To use it you will need to setup an audio track and patch the DXi to the audio track. Once that is done, route the output of the midi track to the input of the DXi track. Voila! Sound!!
Click to expand...

In my ignorance, what do you mean "patch the DXi"? How? And how do I "route the output to the input of the DXi"?

So, the mere fact that I have an M-Audio FireWire 410 alone isn't enough I gather? (Boy, what a learning curve and can of worms I've opened for myself).

Incase this helps, here is all the info on my system/setup

I'm running an Athlon 3500 with Windows XP. I have an onboard soundcard (NVIDIA) but I purchased an M-Audio FireWire 410 that I use for recording and all playback on the computer. Basically I don't use the onboard soundcard.

I have two recording software packages. First, I use Sony Acid Pro 5.0 and I've been trying to migrate to Sonar 5 Producer Edition.

In Acid I can play midi files (created by the program ANVIL) no problem. If I take that exact same .mid file in Sonar I get no sound. Now, I've also checked my Midi Devices and I have both the FireWire (M-Audio FW 410 MIDI) selected as input and output as well as an MPU-401 selected. (I'm not sure why I can't select the Microsoft Midi Mapper).

The Firewire 410 is only attached to the PC by the firewire connection. The speakers are attached to outputs 1 and 2.

Again, all midi sounds work fine in Acid or even with Windows Media Player, but NOT in Sonar. Any help is very much appreciated (you have no idea how much). I figure I can't go further with drums until I get this problem fixed first.
 
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Flet said:
O.K. Thank you, I will look more into what you have mentioned.

In my ignorance, what do you mean "patch the DXi"? How? And how do I "route the output to the input of the DXi"?

So, the mere fact that I have an M-Audio FireWire 410 alone isn't enough I gather? (Boy, what a learning curve and can of worms I've opened for myself).
Click to expand...
First, as noted already, the FireWire does not appear to have a midi synth. It does, however, probably have a midi port. That is why it shows up in your midi devices. A midi port allows you to connect an external synth (keyboard) by connecting the midi out port on the FireWire to the midi in port on the external synth and vice-versa. In other words, you can send signals to the external device, and receives signals back from it.

This is not much help if you don't have one. :)

I'm using Sonar 3, so the specifcs for using a DXi might be a little different in version 5 (a DXi, btw, is a software version of a synth). In particular, I don't think you have the same DXi's avilable to you. However, hopefully you can still follow.

First you want to import the midi track into Sonar.

Next you want to insert a new audio track into your project (right click in the left panel of track view and choose Insert Audio Track).

Now you want to patch the DXi to this new track. To do this, right click in the FX bin (the rectangular area noted with FX). You should get a pop-up menu with a choice of DXi synth. Chose that and you should get a choice of the synths that are available on your system. For now you want a general midi synth (some of them are specialty synths). In my case it is Edirol VSC - not sure what is available to you.

Now go the the I/O tab in track view. Set the output of your audio track to the FireWire outputs that have your speakers connected to them (probably something like FireWire 1/2).

Now go to the output of your midi track. Click the down arrow and a series of choices should come up. One of the choices should be the DXi synth you patched in the steps above. Select that.

Drums are usually found on midi channel 10. So you will probably also want to set the Channel on the Midi track to 10. The input can be left at Omni or None.

That should pretty much do it, but if you are still having problems, c'mon back.
 
dacha....I tried that and to my own surprise it worked, so I can't wait to try it at home. I'll let you know how it pans out at home. It does seem like a bit of a convoluted way to go about it but at least for now it works, so thank you. But don't think my questions are done yet LOL :)

thank you.

BTW, I used the 1-Cakewalk TTS-1 soft synth if that means anything.
 
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So, I tried it at home and it works fine.

Unfortunately I try the same setup with Battery 2 and I get nothing. Can you help me out with what I may be doing wrong with Battery?

So far, I'm using an Audio Track with Battery as a Soft Synth. I then have a MIDI track that is routed to Battery. I try to create drums in the piano roll but no sounds come when I play.
 
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I get the same thing. Some software synths work and some produce no sound. What could it be?
 
Heh, I had no idea general MIDI only worked with MME.. I was going nuts trying to figure out why I wasn't getting any MIDI output since installing my M-Audio Audiophile. Part of the reason I got it was for the low-latency so I could record guitar more effectively with amp plugins, therefore I always use ASIO now. Fortunately I already knew soft synths were a better solution than trying to use MIDI, but sometimes you just want to write parts with an approximate sound and then synth it up later.. that way you don't have to worry about wasting resources early on.. and in that way it stinks not being able to use regular MIDI in Sonar anymore.
 
Mistral said:
Heh, I had no idea general MIDI only worked with MME.
Click to expand...
:confused: :confused:

That is most certainly not the case. Where did you get that idea?

The only tie-in between MIDI and MME drivers is the ability to use the Microsoft GS Wavetable.
 
That's what I mean. For me, that is the only option to get MIDI sound without using a DXi synth, and as you said it doesn't work with ASIO or WDM mode drivers.
 
I'm confused. I use midi Roland drum sounds and I'm set to WDM mode and I get sound from set with no DXi or VST sounds running. Isn't that drum setup considered Gerneral midi? Than I add BFD VST later. (But I can use BFD live too)

I'm actually not sure what the other modes are for. Tascam had me set WDM to work with 1082 board so I stick with that. To much a newbie to know what the others are for. I think I tried going to ASIO thinking it would clear a seperate problem but it blew out my Tascam 1082 driver. So I switched back, reloaded the driver and never crossed that bridge again?! What is the basic difference with the modes?
 
I think the only real advantage of ASIO mode drivers is that there is less latency, ie it works more directly with the card. This is useful when trying to record in real time with amp simulators and such. I have tried everything under the sun to get regular MIDI output working in this mode. It just doesn't.
 
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