No low budget forum

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dani Pace
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enferno said:
i'm tired of blue bear trying to give me advice that is absolutely meaningless to me, due to the fact that i don't have the expierence and collection of gear that he does

Maybe if you listened a bit more carefully you could benefit from his experience....

It's not like Bruce gives his answers in cipher or 128 bit encryption. They are extremely to-the-point and not overly technical. Of course, it helps to know what a compressor does when attempting to record.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: just because the average joe can afford to record with today's cheap-o and powerful technology doesn't mean they have the intelligence, artistry or capacity to learn how to use them.

Heck, 10 bucks buys me a hammer but it doesn't make me no carpenter! Same with recording. Some people just need to realize they are in over their depth and find a new hobby. After all, this isn't just playing a Green Day song with powerchords... this is a serious endeavor even at its most basic levels.
 
While we are on the subject of a tunnel for the bass drum mic, ive got a sort of unique one, it's a kitty house thing. Basicaly it's a tube about 14 inches in diameter, about 20 inches deep, on a 2X4 stand and covered with carpet. I think it originaly came from the pet dept, at Wal Mart. It looks kind of funny sitting in front of the kick but it works fine to isolate the bass drum from the rest of the kit. I wish i could get my photo attachments to upload (i keep getting a pop up saying the file is too large) so I could post a picture of it, you would all laugh but I swear, it works.
This is great guys, keep the ideas comming.
 
I always thought that forums were a place to share experiences, learn and grow. My experience has taught me that some times I actually save money by spending a little more on the right item the first time.

Basically, if you ask specific questions about things, I would never just blindly offer up info on more expensive gear. If you show up here though and just say "what mic should I get" , than everything is fair game:D If however someone is is asking about a specific piece of equipment that falls right near a price boundary where for just a little more something much better can be had, thats a different story.

In the end it is all relative. Someone above mentioned using triggers instead of spending $300 on a mics for a drum set. To that person $300 may be a lot. For me, I normally throw about $6000 worth of mics at a drum set. So $300 to me sounds very inexpensive:) I think in general, those of us with better equipment don't look down on the others or anything like that. For one, we may have been doing it for much longer and we may be doing it for a living:)
 
Luv ya Xstatic...and more power to ya.

Let me first say that I'm in the middle of the economy spectrum here but I really feel for the guys getting strarted. Sometimes you just don't know what you don't know or what you need. Been there and often times still there.

Since this thread is about the economy side of things could you tell us...when you throw 6k worth of mics up. What are you looking at? What about each mic tells you it's going to do the trick. Can you give up a few tidbits on how you came to really know your mics? How did you come to collect all these expensive mics and why? Did you go through the same old "start with an SM57 and keep buying more and more expensive mics in search of the perfect mic" path or what?

Could you suggest some practical tests (without burning up a customer's time). Are there "exersizes" for practice or learning that can be done by the budgeteers to better know the limitations of the equipment they do have on hand or to make better selections when moving on with their gear collection?

For me, I have pretty much a select set up that has gotten good results...I spent a small fortune on equipment I'll never use again. Talk about regrets! These days I pretty much do the same things in equipment set up over and over. They've netted pretty good results so the experimentation process seems to have come to an end as far as equipment selection goes...except for the drum tunnel thing I picked up today.

Thanks Xstatic...looking forward to some of your insight. Not trying to put you on the spot and I realize that this was a really complex series of questions.
 
When my studio first started it was based around an analog 1/4" 8 track and a Fostex mixer to go with it. I worked for a pro audio company so I was able to snag racks full of comps and fx etc... and mics as necessary. Now I am well over $150,000 into my studio. I have however spent nearly 9 years taking all of the money I made and putting it straight back into the studio. I make doing live sound pay my bills, and recording buys my toys. ANyone can do this if they really want, as long as they are willing to live benath their means and work 40 - 80 hour work weeks on a pretty constant basis.

As far as the drum mics goes, lets break this all down first....
Kick.... Senn 602 ($200), AT 4050 ($500),
Snare... SHure beta 57a on top ($100) AKG 414 on bottom ($900)
Hi Hat... AKG 451 ($500)
4 Toms... EV 408e's ($200 ea. totalling $800)
Overheads... AKG 414's ($900 ea. totalling $1800)
Room mic or mics.... Royer R121 ribbon ($1100) and/ or BLUE Blueberry ($1000)

That list totals nearly $6000. That is certainly not the way I started out. Years have doing this have taught me little things though. First, having good solid overheads and room mics give me much better drum sounds (which is kind of my specialty at my place). Whenever I use cheaper mics the sound is almost always tilted with really pointy high frequency lobes that get very obnoxious. I have tried various cheap condensors and none have them have pleased me. However, 8 years ago I would have loved to have owned a lot of the stuff that is out there today. The thing is that I do this (whether it be live orin the studio) 7 days a week and on average 50 or so hours a week or more. I get a lot of practice that means and it also means that I get to try ALL sorts of different things and form my own opinions. Doing so much live work has been really great for being ablke to try new things, learn from touring engineers etc... I get to test out new gear pretty constantly, and have used MANY different mics. As I result, I have definately formed my own opinions on stuff and I am not afraid to be vocal about them. They are all based on actual experience and not some magazine article.

As far as learning what to buy, that is not an easy thing to do. I remember years ago saving up for a DBX 376 tube preamp/compressor/EQ. When I got that thing I was so stoked, but it only lasted me about 6 months before my eras were finally good enough and my technique was good enough to spot the real weak points in it. I had finally gotten a bigger console by then (TAC Scorpion), better monitors (KRK KROKS), gone to ADAT so I could do more channels etc.... The more we do this kind of thing, the more we learn. I know that I personally have gone through a lot of phases. Like I will not l;earn too much for a few months, and then all of a sudden I will get turned on to a new technique or a new way of doing something and it will trigger a large growth period for me. I look back on old projects I have done a lot. First off, there was some techniques in there that I don't want to forget, because they can still be useful. Second, I like remebering that stuff and where I came from and all the work I out into it. I am always suprised by how much I actually like the work I did years ago, but I know for certain that there are lots of things I can do better now. Most of that is due to my growth as an engineer and having more experience. I have to sya though that a good part of that experience comes from learning how to use my tools, and often times those tools are gear, and nice gear at that. Learning when and how to use them has helped make me a better engineer.

Basically, I have a few people out there whom I really trust. When I need to make decisions concerning what direction to go in, I consult with them. Where I live I can't go to any store and just try stuff out like you should. The stuff that I buy now is much nicer than what most stores stock. What I always try to do is put myself in the other persons shoes. When someone asks a question, I try and pretend that I was them at that stage in my career. I ask myself, "what would I have wanted someone else to do for me at that point?". In looking back, I wish I had found some people I trusted for advice long before I actually did. It would have saved me many purchases that were pretty redundant.
 
All rise!

Thanks Xstatic. Hats off to you for taking the time.

One of the things I took from your message was that one really needs to get inerted into the "scene". I too have found this to be true. Once I started rubbing elbows with others of same or similar interests, suddenly I was able to observe others at work, test out and borrow other gear before buying. Hanging around, rubbing elbows is a budget plus...think of it as cheap to near free edjucation which as Ethan put it will make the cheap gear go a lot further.
 
Dude, that is so hard-core DIY.

Right down to the cat piss stains.

Only problem is those holes in it ... kinda' defeat the purpose. :D It's a good thought, though.
 
Way cool...even cooler would be once kitty comes in to take a nap, be on the ready with a rapid fire 64th note double pedal assault. :D

I'm liking it...the technique that is...it's surprisingly effective.
 
I suppose one could also make an effective kick tunnel out of a dog house or even a hampster cage.

Watch Petsmart experience an unexplicable upsurge in sales after those pictures get around.
 
chessrock said:
I suppose one could also make an effective kick tunnel out of a dog house or even a hampster cage.

Watch Petsmart experience an unexplicable upsurge in sales after those pictures get around.

You have hamsters? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sorry, Chess... couldn't resist...

;) :)
 
7string said:
You have hamsters? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sorry, Chess... couldn't resist...

;) :)


Gerbils. Only Gerbils, my friend.
 
punkin said:
While we're on the subject, just wanted to say kudos to Tim Brown...I've been screwing around here in the studio all day. Tried out his kick drum tunnel idea and he's right...way cool. Basically what I did was take a few left over sheets of 703 and make like a teepee tunnel out in front of the kick. I'm working on a cleaner solution maybe a hinged plywood folding thing with the 703 and some fabric.

I've always thought of my drum tracks as being rather good. Usually with three mics...maybe four. But with the tunnel, I'm really liking 4 on the set and one out in the room. 2 OH's, 1 Snare, 1 kick deep inside the tunnel and one out front. The tunnel really gets more isolation or separation for the kick so I can really tweak the kick sound the way I like it.

Okay, here's my answer to the kick drum tunnel problem:

PVC PIPE!

You can make a frame out of 3/4" PVC pipe, and just drape heavy blankets over it. Or, you can take foam, and glue some nylon stapping to it, to act as "hinges", so you can just lay a piece over the top of it - then have the other two pieces hang over the sides.
If you wanted to get really fancy with it, you could glue velcro to the foam, and "strap" it to the pipe.

Or, you could get some really heavy foam, roll it into a circle to create a tibe, and glue the ends together to have a permanent foam tub, or you could glue each end of it to a 24"x24" sheet of plywood, so that it acts like a "dome", and glue a peice over the back end if you wanted to to completely isolate the kick. Then just stick the plywood on the floor in fron of the kick.

You could also mount a podium mic holder to the piece of plywood (it's like a flange with 3 screwholes and a small pipe threaded for a mic clip or boom) and you'd have a mic cmalp installed inside the tunnel - but i wouldn't do this until you found out where you like the mic placement inside the tunnel.


I learned the Mic Tunnel trick from a guy who worked on a Live Joe Jackson album. They made one 36" long out of Chickenwire and packing case foam.

I thought he was crazy at first until I tried it. :p


Tim
 
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Hmmm......

and I just happen to have several lengths of 3/4 PVC pipe laying about... :cool:
 
At 36" long, that PVC I would think sounds more like a kick cannon rather than a kick tunnel. I'll have to give it try.
 
punkin said:
At 36" long, that PVC I would think sounds more like a kick cannon rather than a kick tunnel. I'll have to give it try.


Well, you can make it like 24"x24" like a frame for a box, then cover it with blankets or foam or whatever..


Regarding Joe Jackson's sound tech: they actually had the front half of the Kick drum inside the tunnel.


Tim
 
cellardweller said:
and I just happen to have several lengths of 3/4 PVC pipe laying about... :cool:

Go buy some - it's cheap. :D

Or, you could make one out of cardboard and a hot glue gun.

Just keep laying the cardboard on with the glue, you could make it really strong. The thing is - it doesn't have to be round.


I use a pair of $12 collapsable sawhorses that I got at Lowes with packing blankets draped over 2 pieces of PVC pipe.

Then you stick a speaker under there - close mic the kick drum, and use the speaker inside the kick tunnel, and prepare to get your balls knocked loose with low end. :D




Tim
 
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Oh..ok...I gotcha. I was imagining a smaller diameter tube sized to fit the smaller 4 or 5 inch hole on the front drum skin...like an extended port tube. What the hell was I thinkin'?
 
riznich said:
here's a really cheap thing i came up with not long ago for anyone who has a spindle of 30 or more blank cds. like this

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2233561

-take the case off of the cd holder (the clear plastic part), and just store the cds in that upside down.
-now take the bottom of the cd holder (the black part with the pole) and you have a desktop microphone stand, just place a mic holder like one that comes free with a shure mic on top of it.

Another nice trick. Take a 3/8" dowel rod (or thereabouts), saw it into 1 foot lengths. Take square scraps of wood and drill a hole in the center of each one, about halfway through the scrap of wood. Take a piece of self-stick felt, slap it on the scrap of wood. Cut a hold for the hole you drilled previously. Put some glue on the end of the dowel rod and force it into the hole in the scrap of wood.

You now have a relatively cheap CD spindle with felt to protect the disc from scarring. This is useful if you buy bulk CDs or DVDs that don't come with a spindle.
 
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