Nice try, you stinkin' lying sob(s)!

[The Ghost of FM]

at least there's one person here who isn't talking out of their ass.

At the time Protools was released at that first Namm show, the industry was still heavily into it's sixth or seventh year of digital multitracks such as the 3m and Mitsubishi. Those had already pretty much killed the analog multitracks (MCI was absorbed and killed off etc) and the remaining high end guys (Studer) were really feeling the pinch from those new machines...so they came out with their own. Tascam was even fully gung-ho by then trying to get into the label-end market via their digital machine (which I believe was a d-a-s-h based reel-to-reel).

The high end analog mulitrack market then took another kamikaze blow when the da88 and adats came out..... because now, at a fairly achievable price point, all the mid level (and increasing independent producers) could have a bazillion digtal tracks for a fraction of what the 3m and Mitusbishi digital machines cost. Man, I remember tv/film production guys immediately tossing anything analog they had in order to buy 10 da88's at a shot. No Protools...we were in the land of adat and da88 at that point.

So THAT was the big gobbler of corporate funds at that point. Protools came in in the midst of that and was initially rejected by the high-end market as being too flakey/expensive...incidently the SAME reaction Fairlight and Synclavier were getting at the exact same time as they also tried to enter the same market Protools came into. For awhile there, none of the three could make a dent in getting into the label-end-high-studio-market. Moneywise, the 3m 24 track was somewhere around $190,000, the Mitusbishi was more like $250,000, a fully loaded Fairlight was around $200,000 and Synclaviar was simliar. Those first Protools systems were not even breaking $50,000 as I remember, so they would've been considered the "entry level" product if anything.

Regardless...as a self-sustaining product, analog multitrack divisions were already hitting the dirt everywhere. In early 1995, Tascam saw this huge jump in their da88 sales etc, and decided, man we're also outta this analog thing .... and that's when they ran that huge world-wide fire sale that summer, blowing out brand new crated 24 tracks /consoles etc for five thousand dollars etc.

Even then at that point in time, Protools was still considered to be an expensive toy by many. It certainly wasn't an industry standard yet even as late as 1997 or 1998 imo.

Every time I read one of your posts, its like a breath of fresh air.

Please don't ever stop posting.

Cheers!

 

[Tim Gillett]

Every time I read one of your posts, its like a breath of fresh air.

Please don't ever stop posting.

Cheers!

I second that!

Cheers Tim

 

[blackdavy]

I was actually basing my argument from my personal history and not THE History. Maybe I should try and not get those confused next time.

When I was working for a radio station in college, we got rid of all of our analog equipment and bought-in to digital because in the long run it would be cheaper, smaller and "easier to use". This was between 1996-1998. From what BRDTS stated, this was well after all the studios had started using digital equipment exclusively, so I guess they already set the standard for us peons. We had an Otari 8 track, but we dropped it in favor of SAW Plus 32 (I'm not even sure if SAW exists anymore?) and some DATs. I'm not going to say they were stupid for doing that, but I now own an Otari MX5050 8 track and I would never give it up for anything digital.

By the way, has anyone ever used RMGI tape. You can find it at http://www.usrecordingmedia.com

I've ordered from these guys before and they were super fast at shipping, but I don't know much about RMGI besides what it says on their website. Formerly EMTEC.

 

[cjacek]

By the way, has anyone ever used RMGI tape. You can find it at http://www.usrecordingmedia.com

I've ordered from these guys before and they were super fast at shipping, but I don't know much about RMGI besides what it says on their website. Formerly EMTEC.

You can also get RMGI from here: www.splicit.com

The tape formulations are BASF / EMTEC, all good stuff, under the RMGI name. They're regarded as the best of the best in tape.

 

[cjacek]

Hey, how 'bout this, we'll let BRDTS post and the rest of us, ass talkers, will just take a hike. Sound like a plan? Alrighty then!

 

[Dr ZEE]

heh heh
Yeah, BRDTS, "Please don't ever stop posting. STAY!"!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Hey, how 'bout this, we'll let BRDTS post and the rest of us, ass talkers, will just take a hike. Sound like a plan? Alrighty then!

Daniel,

It wasn't you in particular that I had in mind when I made reference to "ass talkers" in this and other threads here that have a rather clear anti-digital bias to them. Perhaps you have a guilty conscious about this issue and that's what drew you forward to take offense with my words? In any event, I think you've made some very good gains in your technical knowledge of the gear and have been kind enough to offer it up to a lot of newer members who come here asking questions.

I have been pretty consistent over the years here as supporting the idea that all of our recording gear, whether analog or digital was far less important then the actual artistic results that were achieved on them.

I went through my whole hammer analogy a few posts back and won't boar you guys again with it but when a person like BRDTS comes here and offers up very detailed and factual information about how the industry transitioned from analog to digital, I think his participation should be appreciated because it's rare that an industry pro would bother to come here and inject a little bit of reality on a bunch of idol worshipers.

Cheers!

 

[Dr ZEE]

it's rare that an industry pro would bother to come here and inject a little bit of reality on a bunch of idol worshipers.

Ghost, you 've missed a word there - "his", "his reality", that is, or "her reality" (did I say "her" ?, yeah, speaking of rare sh*t).

It is rare, all right. Yet it does occur. That's why this tiny dirty island where a "bunch of idol worshipers" have found their illusional assylum must be watch over and looked after.
....
because, after that tiny island is taken over - it's all over. Also, regardlessly, sooner or later it will be over. I can smell it in the air. Because NO ONE can escape from "their reality".

Speaking of air. It feels good when you get a breath fo "fresh air". And then? - Then, After you inhale that stuff - you'll have to exhale. And what you exhale - that's what others will end up "facing". And then one may smile, the other may say: "Hey, what's that smell, damn it! Arghhhhhhhhh. "

And, btw, Jeff, same applies to all your "technical wisdom" as well. But I'd rather shut the %&*K up at this point, before I crash a few oranges and make a big mess for a no good freakin' reason.

/later

 

[MCI2424]

.......
Speaking of air. It feels good when you get a breath fo "fresh air". And then? - Then, After you inhale that stuff .....
/later

You obviously are inhaling something as I have no clue what you are talking about, as usual.

 

[BRDTS]

....."but we dropped it in favor of SAW Plus 32 (I'm not even sure if SAW exists anymore?) ...."

I never could figure out why Saw didn't get bigger than it did. I bought the first SAW program in 1994 or 1995 since it was the only fairly organized, workable program for the incredibly weak pcs back then. At $1000, it was a fraction of the fairly-new Protools cost. I had a convoluted setup of DAL audio cards and considering the times, the system worked pretty well. Since Protools and Saw started at close to the same time, I actually thought SAW would progress and become the leading program for PC's just as Protools was for Apple. SAW seems to still be around although I haven't kept up with their line for a long time.

Hey Ghost/Tim, thanks! Having been a little kid in the 50's growing up in a house with an actual stereo tape recorder, I was enthralled by them early and I love talking about them. My years as an early Tascam dealer were fabulous....it was so exciting to be around those brand new types of tools that had NEVER been accessible to the masses before...80-8, 90-16, model 5, Series 70 etc. I love all the tools that we now have, but I never get tired of talking about tape recorders since that's where it all started for me.

 

[Dr ZEE]

I have no clue what you are talking about, as usual.

Not just as usual, but rather hoplessly and permanently so.

MCI, you don't even need to read nor try to understand. (Since some point in time), My replies to your "posts" (if such ever) in their core are not conversational nor am I trying to address your personal disastrous problem with ability to comprehend. My replies are simply a part of fulfillment of a public service.

As I've said: "It's all good".
And keep on "injecting" here and there. You are being watched though, so, don't complain then.

/later

 

[MCI2424]

Not just as usual, but rather hoplessly and permanently so.

MCI, you don't even need to read nor try to understand. (Since some point in time), My replies to your "posts" (if such ever) in their core are not conversational nor am I trying to address your personal disastrous problem with ability to comprehend. My replies are simply a part of fulfillment of a public service.

As I've said: "It's all good".
And keep on "injecting" here and there. You are being watched though, so, don't complain then.

/later

What (if anything) are you trying to say (write)? You don't have to (if such ever) reply to my posts (at any point in time) to be conversational or address my lack of comprehension of your completely bizarre ramblings. So, keep on *injecting* here and there. You are being laughed at, so, don't whine.

Love ya' ZEE. Without you, this place would be boring and only full of people with useful opinions and information.

 

[cjacek]

Daniel,

It wasn't you in particular that I had in mind when I made reference to "ass talkers" in this and other threads here that have a rather clear anti-digital bias to them. Perhaps you have a guilty conscious about this issue and that's what drew you forward to take offense with my words?

Jeff, I am certainly not biased 'cause by its very definition that would mean having "a preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment", which is certainly not the case. I have sufficient experience with digital to know that my disinterest in it and favoritism toward analog is real and uncolored. I am, more or less, even-handed when it comes to digital vs analog but sometimes my posts don't make it sound like that.

In any event, I think you've made some very good gains in your technical knowledge of the gear and have been kind enough to offer it up to a lot of newer members who come here asking questions.

Thank you.

I have been pretty consistent over the years here as supporting the idea that all of our recording gear, whether analog or digital was far less important then the actual artistic results that were achieved on them.

I think you've been very helpful over the years and continue to be a critical member on this (and other) forums.

I went through my whole hammer analogy a few posts back and won't boar you guys again with it but when a person like BRDTS comes here and offers up very detailed and factual information about how the industry transitioned from analog to digital, I think his participation should be appreciated because it's rare that an industry pro would bother to come here and inject a little bit of reality on a bunch of idol worshipers.

Yes, I agree that BRDTS lends a very interesting and refreshing look at things in many of his posts. That is not in dispute but it's also nice to dig a bit more into the real reasons why we went from analog to digital and that's where others on this forum shine in certain ways. To believe it's the consumers who single-handedly made the decisions and changed things doesn't tell the whole story. I truly believe that, for the most part, free-will or independent choice does not really exist and that psychology and manipulation thereof makes a bigger difference in peoples' decision making. That, I believe, is the general reason that most (not all) quickly switched from analog to digital. People are willing to follow anything if you manipulate them enough and that's what happened starting in the 80's by the big money makers outthere, ones who had a vented interest in making the digital thing stick. I keep coming back to this but "it’s not technology, but psychology that sells this garbage", as Tim (Beck) stated previously.

 

[Beck]

Daniel,

It wasn't you in particular that I had in mind when I made reference to "ass talkers" in this and other threads here that have a rather clear anti-digital bias to them. Perhaps you have a guilty conscious about this issue and that's what drew you forward to take offense with my words? In any event, I think you've made some very good gains in your technical knowledge of the gear and have been kind enough to offer it up to a lot of newer members who come here asking questions...

Jeff,

It wouldn't be too hard to offend everyone here except BRDTS with the statement:

"At least there's one person here who isn't talking out of their ass."

It's simple math:

20 people
- One person not talking out of their ass
____________
= 19 ass-talkers

By the way, there is nothing necessarily wrong with bias based on knowledge and experience. “Skeptic” is really a better term for many people accused of anti-digital bias. “Dupe” is a good term for someone breathlessly running naked through the street proclaiming, “Hey, they now have a plug-in that can do what tape does!”

Such a decree deserves all the skepticism it will get from those of us that have been doing this for decades… AND have an extensive nuts & bolts knowledge of both digital and analog technologies.

When the marketing machines start rolling this stuff out every year, I have about the same gut reaction as I do with another Loch Ness sighting.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Daniel,

I'm not sure how much psychology was needed when you could get your hands on 3 DA38's for around $9K or a 2" 24 track for $40K (w/o noise reduction), back in the early 90's when digital multi tracking starting dominating the recording industry. I think it was more just simple economics and the promise of dead silence out of your recording format that led a lot of folks over to the digital dark side!

Then as digital recording progressed to hard disk based computer systems, it completely opened up the floodgates to a whole new tier of home studio users and today, we have products like the TASCAM 2488 Portastudio which offer 24 tracks of 24 bit digital sound with an integrated mixer and effects for around the same price as what a 244 Portastudio sold for when it was new back in 1983. I've heard a lot of recordings on this BBS that came from 2488 based studios and they don't sound all that bad...in fact they sound pretty damn good; this coming from an analog enthusiast who isn't completely deaf yet!

Anyway, I should probably stay away from this thread for a while as I don't want to be traumatized by any more pictures of frog legs.

Cheers!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Jeff,

It wouldn't be too hard to offend everyone here except BRDTS with the statement:

"At least there's one person here who isn't talking out of their ass."

It's simple math:

20 people
- One person not talking out of their ass
____________
= 19 ass-talkers

You're absolutely correct and I offer my apologies to the forum here.

The only person here I truly had a gripe with was Dr ZEE for starting what I personally considered to be a tasteless thread, attacking a man he didn't know about a product he had never heard.

In reality though, I really like the good doctor and find it hard to stay mad at him for any length of time.

I hope he can extend to me the same.

Cheers!

 

[Beck]

You're absolutely correct and I offer my apologies to the forum here.

The only person here I truly had a gripe with was Dr ZEE for starting what I personally considered to be a tasteless thread, attacking a man he didn't know about a product he had never heard.

In reality though, I really like the good doctor and find it hard to stay mad at him for any length of time.

I hope he can extend to me the same.

Cheers!

Understandable... and as I said in an earlier post it is also quite natural for ZEE or anyone else to react negatively to the claims of Digidesign and the demeanor of the unfortunate individual in the video.

We tend to connect a person’s conduct, whether it’s on Fox News or anywhere else, with some evil inside the person when it’s more likely “The Camera Affect.” People are nervous when unprepared and may be more worried that they trimmed their nose hair close enough that day than concerned about the subject they’re supposed to be addressing.

So I see some good human responses on both sides and they may be the same response, but one centers on empathy for the poor sap in the video, and the other involves empathy for the poor saps that might run out and buy this product. Both are feeling indignant on behalf or their fellow saps. Empathy is right up there with love, mercy and forgiveness.

I think the video has complicated the debate on whether a plug-in such as this has any value (I think it’s worthless, but that’s beside the point).

 

[Beck]

At the time Protools was released at that first Namm show, the industry was still heavily into it's sixth or seventh year of digital multitracks such as the 3m and Mitsubishi. Those had already pretty much killed the analog multitracks (MCI was absorbed and killed off etc) and the remaining high end guys (Studer) were really feeling the pinch from those new machines...so they came out with their own. Tascam was even fully gung-ho by then trying to get into the label-end market via their digital machine (which I believe was a d-a-s-h based reel-to-reel).

The high end analog mulitrack market then took another kamikaze blow when the da88 and adats came out..... because now, at a fairly achievable price point, all the mid level (and increasing independent producers) could have a bazillion digtal tracks for a fraction of what the 3m and Mitusbishi digital machines cost. Man, I remember tv/film production guys immediately tossing anything analog they had in order to buy 10 da88's at a shot. No Protools...we were in the land of adat and da88 at that point.

So THAT was the big gobbler of corporate funds at that point. Protools came in in the midst of that and was initially rejected by the high-end market as being too flakey/expensive...incidently the SAME reaction Fairlight and Synclavier were getting at the exact same time as they also tried to enter the same market Protools came into. For awhile there, none of the three could make a dent in getting into the label-end-high-studio-market. Moneywise, the 3m 24 track was somewhere around $190,000, the Mitusbishi was more like $250,000, a fully loaded Fairlight was around $200,000 and Synclaviar was simliar. Those first Protools systems were not even breaking $50,000 as I remember, so they would've been considered the "entry level" product if anything.

Regardless...as a self-sustaining product, analog multitrack divisions were already hitting the dirt everywhere. In early 1995, Tascam saw this huge jump in their da88 sales etc, and decided, man we're also outta this analog thing .... and that's when they ran that huge world-wide fire sale that summer, blowing out brand new crated 24 tracks /consoles etc for five thousand dollars etc.

Even then at that point in time, Protools was still considered to be an expensive toy by many. It certainly wasn't an industry standard yet even as late as 1997 or 1998 imo.

True enough, for the most part, but I might add that any examination of the history of digital recording would be incomplete without contemplating the following:

1. Why studios around the world that had previously gone digital began rolling their analog machines back out and/or trying to acquire new ones in the Mid-late ‘90s… what we know as the “Analog Renaissance” which is still in progress.

2. How in 1998, in the midst of the digital transformation Quantegy could successfully introduce a new analog tape formulation, GP9.

3. The rebirth and proliferation of vacuum tube devices starting early ‘90s, which was entirely due to the rise and prominence of digital recording, and for the purpose of “warming up digital tracks.”

4. Why companies like Digidesign have been obsessed with achieving “Tape-like” quality by digital means for about 15 years now.

5. The best and most notable studios in the world are still maintaining and using analog, along with the most current usable technologies.

6. Statements such as “Tape is dead” are from a commercial mass marketing perspective, and have little to do with what people that know what they’re doing are actually doing.

 

[Dr ZEE]

You are being laughed at....

that is expected. I can rather clearly picture such "event". I've been in 'places'.
**********

People get 'exited' by things of their choosing based on effect that things impose on their state of mind.
The actual Properties and Values of things do not reflect (nor relate in any way to) choices, that people make.

Without you, this place would be .... only full of people with useful opinions and information

MCI, I have no plans to go away anywhere soon. So don't count on it. Some day, maybe. So then you can take a deep breath of "fresh air" and do your thing here without obstacles. As for today you and all and every 100 more things that you will "remember about" later still are being watched.

 

[Dr ZEE]

Jeff!!!!!!!!,
just to make it double clear, I have no reason to have any sort of "personal fight" with you or any crap like that is just a matter of "clash of opinions", no more no less. Speaking your mind is expected and respected.
************

I truly had a gripe with was Dr ZEE for starting what I personally considered to be a tasteless thread, attacking a man he didn't know about a product he had never heard.

Jeff, I just have to repeat what I've said at the begining: "...btw, I am not being harsh, I am being actually too nice".
But then again, it's just me. I feel like being offended by an introduction of such product. Some people will feel nothing. Some people will get exited. That is to be expected.
/later