Nice Mic Pre's or Decent Board?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Aguilar
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Not a lot of opining for me to do, just want to point out a couple things.

You should measure the actual noise floor of your studio. You might be surprised.

I have a Behringer DEQ2496, actually a great piece of gear when it comes to metering and RTA. In the RTA or metering mode it is very easy for me to see what the noise floor of my studio is. It sounds so quiet, but is not as quiet as I would have thought! Needless to say, it's not -120!

So could you actually hear the difference between a noise floor of -110 and -120? I *seriously* doubt it. The natural hiss of an analog mixer will be much louder than that. One thing I have to give digital is that it is *quiet*. There was a noticable drop in the noise floor when I went to the DM-24's from my analog mixers.

So debating -110 versus -120 seems a little academic to me, knowing that you will most likely be operating in a real world SN ratio of probably around -80 or so (if you get things really clean and quiet). It looks like 10 dB more of headroom on paper, but it really isn't, in my opinion.

That said, there's a lot more to making a converter sound good than the SN specs. So I would suspect that the MOTU 896HD would still be a nice upgrade for you and be quite useful. Ideally, if you are mixing analog, you'll want 16-24 channels of DA conversion from the DAW to the board. Not sure exactly how many channels are possible with the MOTU unit you are considering, if it is more than eight.

This is the real consideration when deciding whether to go with an analog board or digital: the number and quality of converters you have available to you. It's a balancing act. If you don't have good converters, and I mean really good converters, then you lose more with the DA conversion than you gain with the analog mixer. Detail, naturalness, that sort of thing. In that scenario it is better to stay digital in my opinion, as you don't lose anything.

On the other hand, if you have enough great converters, then it's viable to go with an analog board. Since there is little or no quality loss with the DA conversion, you get the advantages of analog mixing.

The thing is, 16-24 channels of *really good* conversion is not cheap. This was a major consideration for me in my own choice of going with digital boards. I record using a really nice two channel preamp through a really nice converter, and once digital it stays there. That's mostly recording acoustic instruments like piano. My synths I record through the DM-24's, or straight to digital if they have digital outputs. Up to this point, I've chosen not to invest in a large number of outboard DA converters.

As far as integrating an analog mixer to a DAW versus a digital mixer, it's not that different really. It's just with one you need great DA converters galor and the other you need the connections made through a digital interface like the MOTU 2408 for example. The routing from the computer will feel virtually the same, as you will just be selecting outputs for the signals.

More food for thought!
 
Signal To Noise...

You know, interestingly, the signal to noise measurement is something that I understood well back when I was taking my recording classes at USC. But now, having spent two or so years outside of academic parlance, I remember it vaguely. Actually, all I remember is that we covered it. :)

But the way it was put to me a few days ago, and the way I understand it now, is that it gives you 10 extra dbs at the top (of headroom), as opposed to the bottom. This is the point where certain frequencies that give the sensation of "breath" an "depth" in a mix can be cut off. So, if you look at it that way, I think it can be pretty significant. Its all about headroom. The advantage is twofold: (1) it pushes the noise floor down by (2) giving you more headroom at the top. It's suppose to have a synergistic effect...when you are operating with 60-70db (of headroom), 5-10db is not as important because it still sounds like shit. But, when you're up at around 105db, an extra 5-10db can be the big difference between consumer, pro-sumer, and pro. At first glance, it might appear illogical because common sense dictates that 10 extra dbs would have a bigger impact if you only had 50dbs (it would be a 20% increase) than if you had 100dbs (it would only be a 10% increase)... But don't be fooled, as this is not the way it works.
 
My main point was just that the noise floor doesn't get pushed below the level of your noisiest piece of gear. So if you have a converter with a SN of -120 that great, but if there is anything hooked up to it with a SN of -85, then that's the practical noise floor of your studio.

"But, when you're up at around 105db, an extra 5-10db can be the big difference between consumer, pro-sumer, and pro."

Again, there's much more involved than just the noise floor. Some really great gear has SN specs in the mid 80's to mid 90's. A few examples:

Manley Massive Passive -85
Manley VariMu -85
Avalon 747sp -92
Avalon AD2055 Parametric -94
Millennia TCL2 -87
Pendulum ES-8 -85

The list could go on, and I wouldn't call any of those items consumer or semi-pro. Certainly, they are great sounding and quiet units. There's been a whole numbers game thing going on regarding specs, and I think it gets a little silly after a point.

If you can get your whole studio to a noise floor of -105, then I will commend you. But remember that includes everything hooked up to your studio, including guitars, basses, keyboards, fx boxes, mixers, etc., etc.
 
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Point well taken. I will research the issue because what you say makes sense, but there IS some validity beyond mere numbers in what I am saying...It may be that I am not articulating correctly...

So back to square one - what do I get!!!???? :) :) :)
 
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