Newbie seeking startup advice

S

seamus

New member
Hi all,

I'm a total newbie to PC recording but would really like to give it a try. For starters, I would just be looking to do some stand alone bass or guitar tracks. As of now, I've not attempted any recordings yet.

Here's my equipment checklist:

1) PC: Self built, rock solid PIII 700, lots of ram, 2 fast hard drives

2) Soundcard: Aureal SQ2500, older full duplex card
Here's the specs >>> http://www.thetechzone.com/reviews/multimedia/aureal/sq2500/page2.htm

3) Recording software: N-track

4) Microphone: Cheap Labtech condenser, have no problem springing for a Shure SM-xx later on

5) Bass Amp - Carvin R1000, XLR balanced direct out with adjustable level control, pre/post switch, ground lift switch, massive EQ section, onboard compressor, and noise gate / Tech 21 Bass DI, effected XLR, effected 1/4", and unaffected 1/4" / Guitar Amp - Flextone II combo, std DI out and MIDI ports / Basses are too numerous to list here, guitar is an RG570

6) A mixer: I don't have a mixer. :( Is this an absolute must when just starting out? I want to lay down some stand alone tracks for now, at least until I get familiar with things. Later on, I have no problems springing for a reasonably priced mixer. I'm not looking to do professional grade stuff, just something passable for now. I am open to your suggestions on the mixer aspect.

7) Cables: Lots of 1/4" cables, guess I'll need a 1/8" adapter to use the soundcard I/O. Any other cables I should consider? would a 1/4 <> 1/8 cable be best? Also have the MIDI cable for the Flextone interface, I use it for editing sound patches and such.

8) Headphones: Sony V6

9) Monitor: Should I just use the cans for now?

I think that covers what I have going on for equipment right now. I realize I am deficient in the mic, soundcard, and mixer areas especially. Like I said, once I get more comfortable, I would be willing to spend a reasonable sum for better stuff. Right now, I'm just looking to get started and feel my way around the process.

Any suggestions regarding my current equipment and the best way to get started would be greatly appreciated. I also welcome your suggestions on decent, reasonably priced equipment. I don't want to invest a lot of dough until I know what I'm doing. :D

Thanks! :)
 
6) A mixer: I don't have a mixer. Is this an absolute must when just starting out? I want to lay down some stand alone tracks for now, at least until I get familiar with things. Later on, I have no problems springing for a reasonably priced mixer. I'm not looking to do professional grade stuff, just something passable for now. I am open to your suggestions on the mixer aspect.
Click to expand...
You can't plug a mic directly into your soundcard. You need something to boost the signal level. This can be done with a preamp, or a mixer (which has preamps built in). The quality of both the mic and the mixer/preamp will have a lot to do with the quality of your recordings. Don't cheap out in these areas.

9) Monitor: Should I just use the cans for now?
Click to expand...
Not recommended. The mixes will not translate to other audio systems very well, and you end up wondering why it sounds so good on the cans, and sucks when you play it in your car.

The computer system sounds usable. The soundcard will only allow two simultaneous inputs - you can probably live with this if it's just you recording. A/D converters are probably weak, though. I'd recommend a preamp or mixer and mics first though.
 
I get what you are saying about the monitor, that makes sense to me. For the next question, please just bear in mind I have no recording experience whatsoever. :)

I was never planning on running a mic directly to the sound card, but I had something different in mind. Maybe this isn't the preferred way of doing things though, but I'll try and explain.

I was imagining I would just run straight from the bass head into an adequate sound card. I've also decided I will pick up a card that is better suited for recording. The bass head already has integrated power/pre amp sections, so I'm having trouble understanding the mixer thing. I guess what I mean to say is, if the head already has a preamp section, do I still need a mixer?

As far as the mic thing, is that the only way to record? to mic the enclosure? or is it just the preferred recording method? I'm just trying to understand the 'why' behind the 'how' so I do things properly. I don't know what sounds better so I'm sort of unsure on how to proceed at this point.

Here's what I am considering now. Maybe I'll just take the plunge and pick up an Omni Studio and a decent mic. Do you think this would fill in the blanks that exist in my current setup? And even if I do this, would it ever be feasible to record form the bass head>>>I/O box>>>sound card?

I guess I don't want to buy more than I need, but at the same time, I don't want to start off half-a$$ed if I'm going to spend some dough anyway.

Thanks!
 
Hmmm, maybe that last proposition is overkill. How about this instead? Since both my guitar amp and bass head both have direct outs on them, maybe I should just get a new sound card and mixer. Or better yet, if the card had 1/4" inputs, I could just get the card right?

What do you think would be best?
 
Seamus...

I have run a keyboard directly into the line-in on the soundcard with good results so you may be able to do the same from the bass. I would ask around more though because I have not done this.

If you use a mic you will need a preamp. A couple of reasonable options are a ART MP which is about $100 US and a Presonus Bluetube at $170...I have the Bluetube and love it for the price and also like the fact it is stereo...

If you are mainly going to mic instruments a Shure SM57 ($79) is pretty versatile and can be used on vocals as well if you buy a popscreen. There may be better mic options for a bass cabinet though - try a post in the mics section of the board.

Hope this helps...

zip >>
 
Thanks Zip, that's sound advice.

I just did some reading on the Presonus and that sounds like a nice little unit. I also agree on the SM57 suggestion. Since I'm new to all this, that mic should be versatile and inexpensive enough to satisfy my needs.

So we have,

SM57 ~$79
Presonus ~$149

and now all I need is a sound card. I'm thinking the Echo Mia might be nice since I can just run from the 1/4" outputs on the Presonus directly to the 1/4" inputs on the card.

This would put me around $430. The Omni Studio + SM-57 is ~$460. If I spend that much, I'm not sweating the extra $30.

Which would you say is the better option?
 
Duck, here comes another dumb question.

Like you mentioned, the Presonus is a stereo unit. Do I need two mics to take advantage of this?

I've never felt so out of my depth in my life!
 
The Presonus (or any stereo pre) can be used for any two inputs at a time...

You could use two mics at once (two vocalists or two mics on one vocalist) or run an electric/acoustic guitar on one channel and mic the acoustic as well on the other etc...

Another "trick" is to mic a guitar amp by the cone and place a condenser mic further back in the room to pick up room effect. You said you had a cheap condenser - is it a large or small diaphram?? Does it need phantom power?? (A mic pre delivers phantom power required by a condenser mic) Just curious.

Since you are not mixing drums or other multiple input instruments - it may be cheaper for you than a mixer. You can buy inexpensive mixers for a few hundred bucks but they usually have poor sounding preamps. This is why I decided on a decent preamp vs a mixer to start.

I can lay a guitar/key track down over a "click track" then add vocals later...

Do a LOT of research on sound cards...there are a lot of good ones out there. I've heard the Aardvark is a good choice for PC (nonMac) because it has better compatability w/ less "lockups".


M-Audio (Delta) has some good ones as well. A friend of mine who works in audio sales advised me not to buy an echo...something about the company not being stable - lack of support. ...for what it's worth.

Track away!! (hot as possible but don't clip!;) )

zip >>
 
...ahhhh!!...one more thing...

Make sure the card is 24 bit!! The extra bit depth IMMENSELY helps the sound. After you mix you have to convert back to 16 bit (software can do this) in order to burn CD's tho...

Maybe the Delta 44?? Don't skimp on the card...the extra 100 will make you very happy.

The three most important purchases are mic/pre/card and monitors...not necessarily in that order...:)

Hope I'm not overloading you...:)

zip >>
 
A duel servo mic preamp does not need two mics for it to work. Having the Blue Tube will allow you to record two mics at the same time, say the 57 and maybe later on if you get a new mic like a condensor, you can have that recorded. So you can record two mics on two seperate tracks. I have to Blue Tube, it's really good for $150. I got mine at Music123.com

For soundcards I would go with M-Audio, like the omni stuff, or Aardvark soundcards.

Seamus if you are looking for AKG headphones click hear...low price
 
Correct...I meant to say UP TO two inputs at a time....

I usually use it with one.

zip >>
 
Nope, no overload zip, I love all the info.

Thanks for all the replies guys. :)

You know what I think will be the deciding factor on the soundcard for me? the preamps. How the tube preamp in the Presonus compares to the preamp in the Omni Studio unit.

Everything I've read is favorable for both, but I've not been able to glean what sets them apart soundwise. It sounds like the Presonus lends itself to the typical warmth of tubes, and that's attractive to me. On the other hand, it also appears that the Omni's preamp section is also held in the highest regard.

If I get the Omni, then we know it's the Delta 66 for me.
If I get the Presonus, I'll probably pick up the Mia instead.

Decisions, decisions...
 
seamus said:


If I get the Omni, then we know it's the Delta 66 for me.
If I get the Presonus, I'll probably pick up the Mia instead.

Decisions, decisions...
Click to expand...

Just curious...are you basing the above on cost? Is the Omni pre less expensive than the presonus??

glad to help...

zip >>
 
Along the lines of what zip said, in your situation you are really better off using preamps and not worrying about buying a mixer. Your main workhorse is a computer, and you can use software to perform the mixer functions. Mixers are more applicable when you are recording multiple tracks at once and/or not using a computer as your main recorder.

Cy
 
Zip,

At this point the cost difference is negligible with the two options I'm considering, here's the breakdown.

SM57 + Presonus + Echo Mia = 79 + 149 + 199 = $427
SM57 + Omni w/Delta 66 = 79 + 379 = $458

With the price difference, I could really go either way at this point.

Thanks for all the help.
 
Now I get it...

If the Omni has a decent rep I personally would go the Delta 66 route...because of what my friend told me about Echo.

Not slamming the mia...I've heard it's a good sounding card. I would want to be certain I had support if something went wrong.

Plus the Delta 66 has 4 in / 4 outs vs 2 w/ the Mia...this could come in handy later...:)

Just my HO - maybe ask around a bit more before you decide.

zip >>
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top