Newbie Going analog with a TEAC 80-8.

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samth3mancgp

samth3mancgp

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Recently I purchased a TEAC 80-8 deck on craigslist with the remote control unit and two 8 channel snakes, 3 reels of tape, a take up reel and a tape degausser for only $275! I have it hooked up using a Peavey SRC-2400 24 channel mixer. And i've been getting some essential gear for analog work (rack compressor, EQs, Multi-effects/ reverb).

I have problems with the tape jumping around on across the tension arm on the right. I was told on the audiokarma forum that this was because of ol, sticky Ampex 456 tape. The tape is pretty old. I knew about this problem when I bought the deck. It was just too good a deal for a deck that can at least record and playback well on all 8 channels. Much better than The Sony TC-377 that i have can't record anything unless I heat up the record and playback circuits a bit with a heatgun =/

So I took the back off of the 80-8 and I looked at the spring and switch assembly for the tension arm on the right. It seems to be hooked up properly based on a page of the schematic that i was shown on audiokarma by the moderator. I do feel some resistance as i pull it back. But it is not a whole lot. Should there be more tug by the spring, or should it be looser than the other one on the right? The one on the right does have a much larger spring on it.

I learned the hard way about the sticky 456 tape. I was recording some acoustic guitar and vocals with a friend just to test out the unit a bit and during rewind the sticky build up from the tape caused it to start to want to stick during rewind and it made the arms jump around like crazy and the tape snapped right in the middle of where the song was recorded.

It was frustrating and embarrassing to have that happen, and we had to start over since I had no splicing tape. It's obvious I'm going to need some essential things to get going properly. I'm definitely planning on investing in some new tape, I already posted about what would be good to get. I was looking at ATR and Quantegy GP9, but I read in another thread that it is not good for alot of decks. would the 80-8 be able to push this tape, Or should I go with RMGI SM stuff or Quantegy 456? Also, new tape be susceptible to the same sticky shed as the old 456?

I think I have asked plenty of questions just in this post. I'll save some other ones about recording/monitoring for after I get some feedback. :)
 
Welcome to this awesome forum. I know of a few guys that have used this deck for a lot of years and I would think they will have things to say. Since you know about the sticky problems did you clean the heads and things after the tape broke? Also, how is the rubber on the rollers? Are they chunky or sticky? You might have a small problem with that. If you do you can have them rebuilt at a good price. Sorry but that's all I can offer you.
 
All of the transport seems to work well except for the tension arm on the right. It could just be the tape, but it might be that the spring has worn out over the years. I had the arm taped down while i did the acoustic recording with a friend to stop the very bad wow and flutter because of the arm dancing around.

Even though the tape broke and we had to start over the recording again, he is VERY impressed with the sound quality with no compression or EQ, or anything else on it at all. It's so much warmer, clearer, natural and just plain great to listen to! I'm planning on doing all analog recording and mixing with him (using brand new tape once I know what is reccommended and works best with this deck) and sending the master into protools to be saved as stereo WAV. It would be nice to have an Otari MX-5050 or something similar to send the masters to so there can be a physical copy of the analog mix, but that might have to wait due to a tight budget :(
 
The most obvious as well as the most important thing to do here is to buy new tape. Unless you have nothing else to record on and must record, i suggest that you do not use the machine until things are running properly: Apart from causing a serious mess from the bad tape, you can risk damaging things further.

I don't know where they sell new tape around your area but I'm sure there will be some available to you, even if it must be shipped. It appears you already know the two main manufacturers of new tape, RMGI and ATR. ATR is a +9 tape and is more expensive and is slightly thicker tape so it does essentially put more strain on your transport and unless your deck has already specifically been calibrated for ATR tape, you would need to do that to get good results from that tape. RMGI is a little bit cheaper and is similar to Quantegy/Ampex formulations so if your deck has already been calibrated for Quantegy/Ampex, you can (usually) get away with not recalibrating it again for RMGI.

As dodge said, usually, when you purchase a used reel to reel deck, you will need to replace the rubber pinch roller as it has gone gooey/melted or it is dried up/stiff. If your one looks fine, it probably is and thats good then but have a look at it.

Let's hope the new tape will resolve the issues with the tension arm.
 
The 80-8 is a pretty robust machine. However, as decks of that vintage are getting long in the tooth I recommend people treat them with a lot of TLC. I would avoid the thicker +9 tapes like GP9 and ATR. RMGI 911, Quantegy 456, or even 406, if you have the dbx unit, will get along a lot better with the 80-8.

The tension arms don't have much tension to the touch, so you're probably fine there.

Once you've contaminated a machine with sticky-shed the first thing to do is clean that tape path with 90+% Isopropyl alcohol or denatured alcohol, and then clean it again.

Avoid Ampex backcoated tape made through 1993 and even the early part of 1994 like the plague. Also avoid 3M/Scotch 226 from any year. 226 was a great tape back in the day, but it has all gone sticky. Same with AGFA 469, which may be worst of all.

3M/Scotch 206 and 207 are fine... very similar to Quantegy 406 and 407 respectively.

If you’re handy with a soldering iron there is something you can do to improve the sound a bit. It’s not bad as is, but the following mod makes an audible difference in noise and smoother frequency response.

Replace the two 4558 op-amps on each Rec/Repro amp with NE5532AN op-amps (16 in all). This may have already been done, as it was a common mod early on. No need to experiment with newer op-amps, as the circuit is very simple and may not support them without bypass caps and a lot of headaches. The NE5532 drops right in with no further fuss except to perform a calibration afterward. It’s a simple, but effective upgrade.

Welcome to the forum!

~ Τιμόθεος
:)
 
Thanks for the info guys! I'm having my friend come over to record the rest of this little acoustic song onto the old Ampex 456. Sadly, all 3 reels (or i guess 2 1/2 since one broke in the middle because of stickiness during rewind :( ) were manufacted in 1993. haha. I'll be discussing with him about what tape we should get for tracking his solo stuff, as well as a few things with his band. The quality of sound even on this old sticky ampex is already quite impressive! New Quantegy 456 or RMGI SM911 would probably be even better!

So onto some other questions. while we were recording I noticed that channel 1 and channel 8 on the deck do not record as clear of a signal as 2-7. maybe a head alignment issue? And I had some problems with monitoring the tape signal while recording off of track 6. It still records a good signal and plays it well on the playback head, but monitoring it from the record head for sync/cue purposes, It gets staticy and phases in and out from playing back correctly. It's vaugely similar record/playback on my TC-377 that has a boatload of bad caps in it. But hopefully it's a simple fix.
 
You really need to quit using that tape now before you ruin a good machine.
 
I checked the rec/repro circuits and they all have the stock OP-amps in. I have looked into the NE5532AN and I found one place that says they are selling them but there are others that say they want a price quote? (http://store.americanmicrosemiconductor.com/ne5532an.html?gclid=CJbBjsmKi54CFUlo5QodhlYsoA) and theres an eBay auction. but not much else. :confused:

I will be buying some RMGI SM911 today, as well as some leader tape, and splicing tape. Does anybody know about the monitor/sync problems on ch6 and possible solutions to sound problems on channels 1 and 8? :)
 
Consider living with it for a bit before modding opamps.

Edge tracks tend to present response issues more than internal tracks (2 ~ 7).

Try reseating the mp cards for your channel 6 problem. Get some DeoxIT D5 and apply that to the card contacts when reseating. If the relays are plugin do the same thing...spray cleaner, reseat.
 
sweetbeats said:
Consider living with it for a bit before modding opamps.

Edge tracks tend to present response issues more than internal tracks (2 ~ 7).

Try reseating the mp cards for your channel 6 problem. Get some DeoxIT D5 and apply that to the card contacts when reseating. If the relays are plugin do the same thing...spray cleaner, reseat.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm going to make mods little by little. I will make more money as I record more people, digital or analog, whoever is willing to shell out the cash for a reel of tape. I'll pull out the track 6 card and check it out. I have the radio shack electronics cleaner. Is there a difference? But it's essentially the same as De-oxit as far as I can tell. I have cleaned the switches and pots out on my Sony TC-377 and it worked fine for me.

The response on all of the internal channels is noticably better. I guess tracks 1 and 8 could be more reliable for a kick drum or bass guitar recording. Vocals sounded a little off on those channels when we tried it.


Oh, and by the way. I was mistaken about the date that the ampex that I have was manufactured. It was 1991 and 1992. I think the tape may have broke during rewind the first time because of clumsy threading of the tape through the transport. It is still old and would not be my first choice to record on, but I havent had any problems since then and it's the only tape I have. It still sounds good. Should there still be build-up of the tape backing on the tension arms even with good new tape due to friction during rewind? Or is this a sign of sticky shed?
 
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I would say that it is more on the sticky side. The tape is not sticky to the touch and when I take a section of it and stretch it it has to stretch to over 50% of it's original width before the oxide starts to shed off of it. It's only on the tension arms where I can see buildup. The one on the left just before the first capstan has buildup of the black backing, and the second one just after the second capstan with the pinch roller has a bit of oxide buildup
but not as much as the other one.

would this happen with a new reel of tape or is this just sticky shed of the old ampex?
 
I agree with Herm, don't use that junk tape. It will do more harm than good. Also check out Beck's sticky shed threads, their will be more info then you can soak up in a lifetime. Also, when you can, post some of the songs your recording in the Post your analog recordings here thread. We need new tunes.
 
Radio Shack cleaner should be fine and effective. The DeoxIT my be a better long term product down the road as it does fancy stuff. Check it out on the caig labs website...Google it.

DO NOT USE THAT TAP ANYMORE...IT HAS STICKY SHED. THROW IT AWAY. NEW TAPE WILL NOT DO THAT. IT IS BAD TAPE.

Can I be any more clear? :)

Get some 91 percent isopropyl alcohol and some 100 percent cottom makeup remover pads and clean every part of the tape path really good with it (except rubber components) especially the heads...you may have a buildup of edge shed from the tape on tracks 1 and 8...might even be the cause of your track 6 problem...it takes very little 'stuff' on the heads to cause trouble. The heads need to be spotless and the makeup remover pads will help you get in the crannies. The guides on the 80-8 hit both edges of the tape so they could promote a buildup of shed and that could get on the upper and lower sections of the heads.
 
Alright haha. :o First on the list is to get new tape. RMGI seems like the best deal. I found place where I can get 1/2" for about $75 per reel. not too bad.
 
75? That's too much Bob! Let me check a few places for you. I'll get back with you tonight. (In case your wondering, That's too much Bob us to be said every 3 seconds on The Price Is Right.)
 
Dang, those prices are significantly better. Thanks! :)
I have a question about the maleo website though.. because I found that site and was getting what seems to be the same reel for $77. I didn't understand the difference in that "pce" part next to it.

RMGI SM911

+1 pce $77.19 ea
+6 pce $71.01 ea
+18 pce $66.07 ea

I was planning on getting my everything from there because I could get splicing tape and leader tape for the lowest prices and it had the lowest shipping cost. but the one I chose was the +1pce. what is the difference between those 3 different options? :o If "pce" means Piece, then the $66.07/1 reel would be If I bought 18 reels. =(

I just won 3 metal reels on the eBay with no tape on them to use as extra take up reels, but I think 2 (1 form the auction and the one I have now) should be enough for take up reels just so I always have an extra, which would leave 2 from this auction to maybe load up with the cheaper tape on the splicit website that is rolled up in pancakes and not on reels. Is there a downside to pancakes? because 2 extra reels from pancakes seems a lot better than just 1 reel :D

And just out of curiosity, I was watching this auction for awhile and it ended up selling for quite a bit. It all looks like Ampex 456.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260504329150&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Is the dude that won this auction about to get a bunch of tape that could possibly mess up his machine like the crap I have? haha.
 
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samth3mancgp said:
Dang, those prices are significantly better. Thanks! :)
I have a question about the maleo website though.. because I found that site and was getting what seems to be the same reel for $77. I didn't understand the difference in that "pce" part next to it.

RMGI SM911

+1 pce $77.19 ea
+6 pce $71.01 ea
+18 pce $66.07 ea

I was planning on getting my everything from there because I could get splicing tape and leader tape for the lowest prices and it had the lowest shipping cost. but the one I chose was the +1pce. what is the difference between those 3 different options? :o If "pce" means Piece, then the $66.07/1 reel would be If I bought 18 reels. =(

I just won 3 metal reels on the eBay with no tape on them to use as extra take up reels, but I think 2 (1 form the auction and the one I have now) should be enough for take up reels just so I always have an extra, which would leave 2 from this auction to maybe load up with the cheaper tape on the splicit website that is rolled up in pancakes and not on reels. Is there a downside to pancakes? because 2 extra reels from pancakes seems a lot better than just 1 reel :D

And just out of curiosity, I was watching this auction for awhile and it ended up selling for quite a bit. It all looks like Ampex 456.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260504329150&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Is the dude that won this auction about to get a bunch of tape that could possibly mess up his machine like the crap I have? haha.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I made a mistake on the maleo website. That's my fault. You would need to buy 18 (a case) to get each reel at a discounted price. That would bring your total to about $1,189.26 I don't think you'd want that. As far as the empty reels, if they are in good shape it's a good idea to use them. No downside to pancakes that I've ever seen. Just remove the screws from the empty reels and install the pancake and tighten the screws. Sorry again for the mistake.
 
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