New way of mixing for me.

[Mr Clean]

When I didn't know any better and had a computer much worse than the crappy one I have now I used to do something similar. I would get all my tracks to sound as I wanted them or as best I could and then bounce them down to stems and mix the stems with the effects printed on them in another project. It kinda worked but then, I didn't know any better. I used to do similar when I first started with 4 track tape and then 8 track digital. Bounce a mix down and add over the top. When I first started I had 2 cassette decks and a DJ Turntable Mixer for mic input - lol

Now I just send everything to bus's and leave myself with a small group of faders to mix rather than the 20/30 individual tracks. Before I learned about sends I got confused when the tracks mounted up.

I'm much happier now

 

[miroslav]

Stems are a different animal, and have their legit uses....he's basically "stacking" his tracks all into one as he goes along.

 

[Mr Clean]

Yeah. That's just crazy

 

[grimtraveller]

he's basically "stacking" his tracks all into one as he goes along.

Yeah. That's just crazy

And for the record, I agree. When you record on a 4 track portastudio and you have 10 elements but only record two people at a time, you're going to be doing alot of submixing, or as they used to call them at EMI, 'reduction mixes'. I learned very quickly that this way was not for me and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. It was frustration city for me. I saw initial takes sounding great and the more I submixed/bounced, they got worse and mushy.
But that's kind of secondary to the point I made earlier.
Man in motion felt that his mixes sounded good, as does the band he was doing them for. Our opinions are utterly irrelevant in that regard. At best, as far as I'm concerned, we might provide options for future experimentation. But to do away totally with what he was happy with just because we said "that's weird", that's alarming, in my head. I guess I have an allergic reaction to the notion of someone allowing themselves to be told what to do when they're happy with where they're at.

 

[Mr Clean]

Yeah absolutely. Each to their own and whatever works and all that. In the digital/computer age of recording though, that method makes no sense. Well, none that I can fathom. But I'm a mere amateur in every sense. I know what I know.

 

[grimtraveller]

Yeah absolutely. Each to their own and whatever works and all that. In the digital/computer age of recording though, that method makes no sense. Well, none that I can fathom.

To me, it makes abundant sense ~ but only if you can get it to sound good. After all, many of my favourite singles and albums from the 60s were created in similar fashion. Some engineers got pretty good at it. My attempts to join their ranks ended in dismal failure !

 

[Mr Clean]

Might be worthy of an experiment. I'm going to have a play tomorrow.

 

[miroslav]

But to do away totally with what he was happy with just because we said "that's weird", that's alarming, in my head. I guess I have an allergic reaction to the notion of someone allowing themselves to be told what to do when they're happy with where they're at.

Well, he came asking....already with the suspicion that his method might be a "bad thing", and it is certainly not a "good thing".

I can't speak about his mixes because we have not heard them, but having done that sort of thing (and as you've also confirmed from your experiences) the more you stack or "reduce down" track after track....the worse it gets. Sometimes also, what people think sounds "good" may not be based on any proper reference or other methods to compare against.
Granted, DAWs give him some option to go back, unlike tape days.....but it's not the best way to do it, and I'm confident if he approached mixing from the way most people do it....he would see why and gain from it....but if it becomes somewhat of a crutch doing it his way, he will have a harder time later on facing a mix with 30-40 tracks in it...etc.

It's not about telling him what to do....rather pointing out why he should.
Teachers do it all day, every day....help break bad habits, to help someone improve. So there's nothing alarming about it, and I don't always buy into the notion that "anything goes" if you "think" it's good.
In the long run, it can handicap you when it's time for you to expand your horizons.
I'm just suggesting that he provide a logical reason why he's doing the way he is, which I don't think he has, and his "reason" might be more of a "seems OK to me" kind of thing.
We are giving him the option and reasons/examples of why the other way is better in the long run.
We are empowering him with options that will help him improve.

I wish I had more of that input and direction when I was first starting out....but back in those days, it was ALL trial-n-error, and the amount of time and effort on doing something the wrong/hard way didn't always pay dividends, but yeah, sometimes it's also good for someone to learn some things by trial & error.

It's like the never ending mixing with headphones questions....some of those guys also say they are happy with their mixes so do they really need monitors....?....YES.

 

[witzendoz]

Ahh memories,

Now when I had a 4 track 3340, we used to mix the drums to 1 mono track, record the guitar, bass and keys to their own tracks, mix down the music to a stereo 2 track, bounce the mix back to the 3340 and add a couple of vocal tracks.
Then we go an 8 track, record the drums to a stereo track, record the bass, guitars, keys, vocals to their own tracks and mix from that.
Then came the 16 track, oh joy, several tracks for drums.
Then the 24 track, heaven.
Now so many tracks we can even mic up the kettle boiling in the kitchen while the band plays.

So let me get this right, lets get rid of all of this and get a 3340?

Alan.

 

[ManInMotion711]

Would it possibly be more beneficial to mix just the drums down to a sub track and than record everything else in the same project? When I have the 7 drum tracks and the 4 four guitar track and the bass track and however many vocal tracks I need my computer starts skipping and freezing. I'm pretty much doing it to minimize the amount of effort my laptop has to put in.

 

[witzendoz]

Would it possibly be more beneficial to mix just the drums down to a sub track and than record everything else in the same project? When I have the 7 drum tracks and the 4 four guitar track and the bass track and however many vocal tracks I need my computer starts skipping and freezing. I'm pretty much doing it to minimize the amount of effort my laptop has to put in.

Yes This ^^^^

Alan.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Man, I do not miss the days of limited computer space/recources. What a pain..

 

[miroslav]

....my computer starts skipping and freezing. I'm pretty much doing it to minimize the amount of effort my laptop has to put in.

Ahhhh.....not THAT gives a logical reason to your mixing approach.

Well, in that case, you do what you have to do to make it work....but the best answer then would be to upgrade your computer and/or see if you can improve the performance of the DAW app by adjusting its settings.

I think if it's mostly the result of the track count (and not because of too many plug-ins)....it's a hard drive issue. Basically, the drive can only deliver X-number of tracks before it starts choking up. You can mess with buffers, but at some point, you just may need the better computer/faster drive.
It’s hard to say without knowing your system and all its settings, etc.

So yeah....when you can, make some upgrades, rather than forever handicapping your mixing options.

 

[grimtraveller]

We are empowering him with options that will help him improve.

I know. And I agree. And I agreed that I thought he was flying a helicopter across the ocean to get to the shops down the road. And the problem wasn't from our point of view. What makes a good forum is people sharing their insights and thoughts.
But no one can listen or judge through someone else's ears.

when you can, make some upgrades, rather than forever handicapping your mixing options.

That's the way to go.
Do it ! Soon~ish !

 

[ashcat_lt]

Ahhhh.....not THAT gives a logical reason to your mixing approach.

Well, in that case, you do what you have to do to make it work....but the best answer then would be to upgrade your computer and/or see if you can improve the performance of the DAW app by adjusting its settings.

I think if it's mostly the result of the track count (and not because of too many plug-ins)....it's a hard drive issue. Basically, the drive can only deliver X-number of tracks before it starts choking up. You can mess with buffers, but at some point, you just may need the better computer/faster drive.
It’s hard to say without knowing your system and all its settings, etc.

So yeah....when you can, make some upgrades, rather than forever handicapping your mixing options.

Yep! I was having trouble with a fairly large mix (much more than what the OP is doing, but...). I froze as much of it as I could to take the load off the CPU, and it still kept farting out when I got too many tracks going. Dropped an SSD into the machine to use for active projects, and it made an immediate and noticeable difference. I haven't yet found the new limit on simultaneous tracks, but I have now found my CPU limit...