new tune -- let me know your thoughts and suggestions

  • Thread starter Thread starter maryslittlesecret
  • Start date Start date
M

maryslittlesecret

New member
Howdy, all. I'm back again with a new tune, "Job's Song". Please check it out at http://www.mp3.com/30SoS and let me know what you think. As always, production, mix, songwriting, performance, lyrics, etc. are all game. And again, feel free to draw comparisons to the other tunes I've posted.

In fact, if you'd like to tell me your favorite song, that would be great! We'll be entering a song in a local contest soon and would love input on what you feel the strongest submission would be. Thanks and I hope to hear from you soon.

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS
 
I gave the song a listen and also the other two on your site. Of the three, my preference was "Complete." It had a lot more clarity on the vocals (I was lo-fi, sorry but downloads on a 28kb line take a while.)

On Job's Song, I noticed that the song came across a little weak in the low mids. If this is what you want then the mix is perfect. I am not a big metal fan, but I notice that most metal bands tend to cut the low mids. I am assuming that this is to get more thump in the bass without the high overtones. This sort of thing seems to be more noticed on lo-fi play since lo-fi appears to lose a lot of the highs and lows.

I liked the vocal effects, nice touch.

Overall, nice job and good luck on the contest Let us know if you win!
 
Thanks for the input, Sonic. "Complete" is a favorite with our mail list as well -- it's currently in the lead for the contest submission... I'll definitely let you know if we do well in the contest (they'll announce the winner a week from today).

I appreciate the comments on "Job's Song" as well. However, I'm pretty much a rookie when it comes to EQ -- do you have any suggestions in terms of specific frequencies I'd want to cut or boost? Let me know. Thanks, again.

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS/
 
I took a listen. With small headphones this mix sounds very good....very radio ready, in that you really emphisized both the guitar and vocals appropriately.

I don't really like the beginning though, and this is of course just my personal opinion....it's just kinda weak I guess. The big guitars rescue it though. I also think that this song could use a better hook.... it seems to be missing something, a change...

I really like what you did with the vocals. I especially like the the distorted/delayed "answer me" bit...that's VERY cool.

Very impressive recording!

Slackmaster 2000
 
J

The mix sounded really good. THis is a good metal tune. I liked the octave singing and the bass sound was fitting and appropriate for the song. Ditto on the delay on the vocals. Just enough delay time etc.

Enjoyed

Ray J
 
Hey J...

Nice to see another "local" artist on here.

I actually thought the intro was kind of cool... maybe a little bit on the long side though. Have you thought about maybe EQ'ing the intro to make it have a much narrower sound than the "song" portion? Kind of like the telephone effect? Doing something like that might make it possible to reintroduce that rhythm later in the song and still be able to tell it and your drummer apart.

I liked the cymbals on the drums quite a bit.. nice and bright.

Everything seemed to sit fairly well together.

V.E.
 
Thanks for the comments, everyone...

Slack -- glad you liked the overall mix. the beginning was meant to be kind of weak, just as a way to build up for the big guitar intro while still introducing the theme of the song. I can understand where you might not like it though... And yes, this tune is missing a hook (especially compared to my previous stuff), but I sacrificed this tune to the heavy guitar riff... ;-)>

Ray J -- thanks for commenting on the octave vox. it was the first time I tried it and I think it worked out pretty well.

V.E. -- It is cool to see another 'local' artist here -- we need to dispel the 'nothing but cornfields' myth... It's funny that you mention the 'telephone' effect -- we considered that but opted against it for no real good reason. May have to rethink that... And I'd like to take credit for the cymbals but that goes to BOSS ;-)>

Any thoughts on which of the tunes I've posted so far would be the best to submit for contests, press, promotions, etc.? Feel free to play favorites (or least objectionable...) ;-)> Thanks and keep the input coming.

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS/
 
This is the second song of yours I've listened to(I cant remember which one the other
was).They both kicked ass,so it seems like apples and oranges to me.
What model drum machine are you using.It sounds much better than my archaic Alesis
HR 16.Very realistic.Keep up the good work
Matt
 
Want to know when you are offering drum machine programing and POD guitar layering classes.

This song was my favorite by far. I really like the lyrics and the content of the song. That is as much of the hook as far as I am concerned as any riff or catchy chorus. The "answer me" delay was awesome. Could you walk us through the process of your song composing for this one? This is the most radio ready song I've heard from you guys. Any offers yet from the A&R guys?
 
I listened to the first couple of songs on your site...overall solid production. Very contemporary metal sound ala sevendust who kind of pioneered the sound in the late 90s. The slow open groove and the wide guitar....is cool and has yet to go out of style :)

A couple of points:

1. As far as the intro in the first song, it sounds like a keyboard guitar with the pitch bend. I would play the part with a guitar and make a low shelf at 1k, or something along those lines to get that thin/thick contrast youre looking for instead of the keyboard.

2. I would also use something other than the TR808 drums in the beg.

3. The songs seemed to be missing a midrange, on my midrangey monitors(which bump the midrage) everything bet 1k and 5k seemed to be very set back.

4. The distorted over the phone vocal seemed too low cut and overeffected so the balance between thick and and thin vocal
isnt there.

I liked the transition before the chorus. (the "look what youve done to me" break... is musically cool. ) The vocals were well done, well performed and well mixed (...what mics/pres are you using for vocals?)

As far as songwriting. "God is your self esteem so weak?" It comes off as an overwrougt attempt at being "in your face" which ends up being trite. In general the topic of human suffering is too profound and introspective to be articulated in this way. Adolescent angst only works (if it works at all, Ill admit to finding almost everything adolescent entirely cliche...I used to be a big korn/pantera fan so I understand the agenda) when its vague and in general. This song presents itself as an emotional outburst,
Job's suffering is not the kind that is a quick emotional
outburst, it would be more of a long simmering type of anger (if anger at all...it would more likely be despair, which is what long simmering anger turns into). I dont know if the kids who would be into this are subtle and nuanced enough to get it but they may be.

Anyway, solid work overall.
 
something that is immediately accessible and listenable. I still love what you are doing. The thing I would do for this one would be to throw in some sort of lo-fi little drum loop, instead of the 808 drums in the beginning (i can mail you one offline if you're interested). also, in the middle when you have the guitar breakdowns, I would just keep it solo guitar in the full band comes back in. It seems like what you're doing now, with the one guitar solo, then the second guitar coming in, THEN the band, distills the power of it. And it also gets quite a bit muddy. It would be better to just keep that second guitar muted until the drums hit. I'm also not toally sold on the bass sound, it's a little to piano-ey for me. Put a little low-mids in that beast, then pull it down in the mix about a half dB. As usual, your vocals kick ass.

Overall, not quite as catchy as your others, in that you usually have a super-hooky chorus. however, that's almost balanced out by the hookiness of the verses. If this was on an album, it would still be well above the filler that most bands stock their work with.

I don't agree about the lyrics not being right for the story of Job. I think when you write lyrics about a biblical character, like any character from a written work, it is your perspective that matters.

All I can say is I would really hate to be you and have to choose which song to pick for a contest. Probably "dying again" with the ultra-catchy chorus, but I wouldn't want to be picking.
 
I listened to all 3 songs, and here are my general comments.

The production is good...sounds like contemporary metal.

I like the drum programming. Nice job creating a nice groove and feel with the bass guitar and drums.

However, I think the sound of the kit needs to be more deep, dark, powerful, etc. I think the sound is too wimpy for this type of material. Just my personal preference.

Good job capturing the metal sound and feel.
 
You guy's are fuckin awesome! I'd buy it as it is...Nuff-said!
 
Thanks for the comments and suggestions, everyone. Just so I can address everyone's thoughts, this will be a long one. Here we go...

VS -- No real lesson to offer on the POD, other than spending the time to create a good tone to start with. And as far as the drum programming, I can only take partial credit there. The best advice I can give you is to either consult/work with a real drummer when you're programming or just try to pay a lot of attention to how the drummers in your favorite bands play and and how they enhance the songs. In my opinion, drums impact a song more than any other single instrument (including vocals), so spend a lot of time on the drums.

The composition of this song hasn't changed much over the years (the song itself is pretty old). I really liked the guitar riff and considered that the 'hook', more than any of the vocals. I wanted to introduce it early without completely giving it away, so I opted for a really cheap sounding version to bring it in and then drop the big guitars. After that, I wanted to add dynamics to the verse so I kept the same riff and arranged it to start with just bass and drums and add the guitar in the second half to beef it up. The prechorus is a mystery anymore -- it's a very strange guitar riff for me and I don't quite remember how I came up with it (though i still like it). With the 'chorus', I wanted the guitar/groove to carry it so I minimized the vocals and lyrics as not to cover it all up. Lastly, the bridge was just kind of a variation on the verse -- a groove and riff that's similar enough to maintain the theme of the song, but still different enough to feel like a new section... Does that help to answer your question? If not, let me know what you're wondering about and I'll see if I can help.

Pilgrim -- thanks for the detailed commentary on the song! I really appreciate you listening so closely and offering in-depth suggestions. I'm most interested in your EQ comments. I'm a complete EQ rookie -- I literally never use EQ, other than dialing in my guitar tone on my POD. Could you give me a brief overview fo what frequencies to boost or cut to make it sound a little better/more professional? And in terms of the lyrics, I can see where you're coming from. However, I was trying to walk that fine line of addreessing a (most likely) adolescent audience but with more elevated subject matter. Instead of talking generally about how life sucks, too much homework, etc. (as too many bands do), I was hoping to inspire a little literacy by introducing Job as a timeless character they could relate to (as well as get on my agnostic soapbox for a moment) ;-)> I appreciate the comments though -- hope that helps explain my view as the lyricist. Let me know about the EQ if you can... Thanks!

charger -- thanks for your input as well. With two votes against the 808, I think it's something we definitely need to consider. I like your suggestion of more of a lo-fi kit. I also think a vinyl-type kit might be cool as well. Hmmmmm...? I was going for a more gradual build in the bridge with the key to guitar to bass, but I might have to try it the other way to see if a sudden hit works any better there. And yeah, definitely not a vocal hook like "Dying" or "Complete", but its one of my favorite guitar riffs and I didn't want to cover it up... ;-)> Also, I'm glad you picked "Dying" as your contest choice -- not the most popular vote, but it lets us know that it's not a total bomb if a few people think that's the one. "Complete" ended up getting sent in (and losing). Perhaps "Dying" should've been the one... ;-)>

ajgrossman -- we agree with you; the drum sounds are the one aspect of our recording that we're least happy with. We just toyed with a DM Pro and unfortunately didn't find the sounds we're looking for. Do you have any suggestions for solid drum modules? Until we get to the point where we're ready (and have the gear or cash) to record real drums, we're probably going to have to keep working with what we have...

and David -- thanks a lot! Pardon my shameless promotion, but if you're interested, we'd love to have you sign up for our mail list. We're offering to mail a free three-song demo to anyone who signs up for our email list through our site right now. The address is below for you or anyone else who's interested...

Thanks again for the comments and suggestions. Please keep them coming!

J
http://www.30SoS.com
 
The bottom line with EQ as with every area of mixing and mastering: the best way to learn is by experimenting. Frankly, Im surprised you havent worked with EQ bec as much as the songs lack midrange the overall balance bet guitar, bass, drums and vocals is there. You got lucky I guess. :D

Could you give me a brief overview fo what frequencies to boost or cut to make it sound a little better/more professional?
Click to expand...

There are no hard and fast rules. Everything is case by case. In your mix though like I said you need to boost around 1k or 2k(with a constant Q of .5 or .4 if youre using a parametric EQ which is what I would recommend- use a fairly wide curve).

A couple of general pointers about vocal EQ (everything depends on the voice/mic/pre/room youre recording in):

The midrange is typically where vocals are found.

1. A boost bet 1k and 2.5k (.5 or.4 constant Q) will make vocals more "resonant", this is the area known as "honk", if you overdue it- thats what will happen. Some vocals need a boost around 1k, some 1200, some 1500, some 2k etc. It takes trial and error to figure out who needs what, where. In general a slight rise at 1200 can be magic on most male vocals ( if you recorded with a flat mic, if not you could be in honk territory). This will do alot to make them come out and sit in the mix at the same time. A yank at 2.5k works well too.

2. A slight bump at 4.5k is nice sometimes.

3. A 12k sheen is what many hi end mics have built in. Depending on the genre and mic- you would boost this anywhere from 1-9db. In rock you would typpically boost this range much less than in R&B like destinys child, where everything is so "sheeny" you can see your own reflection.

4. When there is a section in a song with little or no music where the vocal is center stage you may want to give it a thickness and low end presence. A bump at around 350 will do this.

5. All of the above should be done in a paraEQ with good monitors. Keep the curves wide. Get more surgical as you learn EQ and your monitors.



Have fun.
 
Pilgrim -- thanks a lot for the EQ tips! I've been searching all over for some general pointers/frequencies for me to start with. I haven't had a chance to try any of them yet, but I'm hoping to this weekend...

And Sonusman -- we'd love to record real drums, but with my sound card having only four inputs and with only about three mics to my name (I'm much more of a rookie than I try to let on) ;-)>, it would be a big investment not only in time -- learning the proper techniques, etc. -- but in gear. Hopefully someday, but probably not for a while (unfortunately)...

Thanks for the input. Any other thoughts or suggestions?

J
http://www.30SoS.com
 
Damn dude.....Perfect mix for the style..

How did you get the awesome sound through the POD? I have a pod and can't get tone like that? How many different guitars are going? What preset did you use?

Very good song..along with the other two.

The main thing I would do would be to give the drums a lil more punch...Try eqing them a little...maybe some compression..
 
me too...

Id like to know what you are doing to that pod too. I play through a gibson sg and cant get anything that thick, are you really layering there?
I like complete better than job's song. Seems to be mixed better and I like the effects at the bridge, very cool. All sounds pretty good to me.

BTW, Job was blessed after all God tested him with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top