New to sampling - perplexed

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BillyBo

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okay, perplexed was just a fun word. but i'm seriously puzzled. i've been making beats for a while, mostly w/ FL, and cutting a few samples where i liked them, but never really "knew" how to sample. i seem to go about it the long way and chop 4 bars here, or a drum and snare there...... so anyways, more info from a recent email to someone who has created a few beats for my last album:

i wish i had the ability to chop samples, not just loop them. i dont know if i'd need a turntable (digital) or a very nice sampling program........ background story -- i saw a vid of some kid tapping his keyboard (spacebar) as a sample played. i'm not sure if this was doing anything or not, but the way he used it sync'd to the program made me think he was setting chop points............. so anyways, i'd love to be able to make beat-by-beat chops and arrange/layer as needed to make dope loops. i don't know of anyway to do this right now. it's making sampling very difficult for me. i have 40-60 tracks from that sampling site and i tried to loop/sample a few of them with high hopes, but either too much time, or not enough knowledge/software to make it happen.
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so that vid might have been from someone on this site, very possible that's the case, but i dont remember where/who it was from.

i was told that maybe Reason is the program i'm looking for, and i remember using a demo of it a year ago and not knowing what i was doing, so i deleted it.

someone wanna help a brother out?

oh - the turntable thing was just my mind running, i really have no time or money to get one and learn. so software solutions only, please.



bless.
 
In my 1 vid I posted I was tapping the space bar, but I was using a BPM calculator and tapping out the tempo... I doubt that's the vid your talking about though. Here it is again just incase... http://www.expressionmusic.com/video/ExpressionBeat.wmv

Edit: The space bar in most apps starts/stops playing so that coulda been it too, that when someone pressed the spacebar the sample played and they hit it again to stop it.


I'm pretty sure FL will work as well as anything else for sampling (I think), if not reason has some cool samplers.
 
hah, yep, that's the vid.

but it still brings me to my point. say i have a song that i want to sample. is there anyway to simplify the sampling process other than grabbing the parts i want in the uber-time consuming fashion using (in my case) Adobe Audition?

i need to find a tutorial on Reason. and i know you can tie that in w/ FL, again, i'm new to sampling, so i'm not sure how.
 
BillyBo said:
hah, yep, that's the vid.

but it still brings me to my point. say i have a song that i want to sample. is there anyway to simplify the sampling process other than grabbing the parts i want in the uber-time consuming fashion using (in my case) Adobe Audition?

i need to find a tutorial on Reason. and i know you can tie that in w/ FL, again, i'm new to sampling, so i'm not sure how.
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Hey!
You can use FL studio as a plug in in most sequencers. Some of these sequencers will have what's called a Hitpoint Calculator; it works out where the 'hits' are...you can adjust the threshold too...I havn't used it, but I think the idea is you can chop up a track based on where, say, the kick drum hits, and copy and paste as you need.

You can only do this for an audio file though, not MIDI (MIDI is easier because you can see exactly where the hits are.)

I dont FULLY understand your question so lemme know if this is what you had in mind...
 
well... i think you almost got it. that's pretty much what i want to do... be able to hit a trigger (mouse click, spacebar, maybe even have the program chop it every beat/whatever parameter specified?).... but you say i can use a sequencer... what would i use?

my current manner of chopping loops/samples:

open file in AA
zoom waaaaay in so i can be precise w/ it
"copy to new"
use "new" in FL or AcidPro to adjust tempo/pitch & arrange drums over it.

i am simply uninformed/unlearned in this area and would really like to expand my horizons w/ making beats for myself.

note: i dont use MIDI. i have and i can, but for the most part, i'm not interested in it unless it's vital in making this process easier.

thanks... keep coming w/ knowledge........ *still looking for that tutorial*



bless.
 
BillyBo said:
my current manner of chopping loops/samples:

open file in AA
zoom waaaaay in so i can be precise w/ it
"copy to new"
use "new" in FL or AcidPro to adjust tempo/pitch & arrange drums over it.
Click to expand...

Ahhh I remember them days...lol I still do it that way from time to time but it can be a headache. I just started using midi this year and it makes a BIG difference with quantizing alone. I was sold after seeing the auto quantize features of Reason and Cubase SX you can even set it to be "off" a little too so it's not robotic.

Sounds like what you need is ReCycle (made by propellerhead also) or something like it. It's pretty good with detecting hit points and tempo also. If you get Reason you can save the Recycled files as .rex files and pull them up in the Dr. Rex loop player and trigger each sample with your midi keyboard to avoid loading each sample individually. If you need any help with Reason let me know, I can walk you through the basics and even a few advanced features if need be.
 
mentalattica said:
Ahhh I remember them days...lol I still do it that way from time to time but it can be a headache. I just started using midi this year and it makes a BIG difference with quantizing alone. I was sold after seeing the auto quantize features of Reason and Cubase SX you can even set it to be "off" a little too so it's not robotic.

Sounds like what you need is ReCycle (made by propellerhead also) or something like it. It's pretty good with detecting hit points and tempo also. If you get Reason you can save the Recycled files as .rex files and pull them up in the Dr. Rex loop player and trigger each sample with your midi keyboard to avoid loading each sample individually. If you need any help with Reason let me know, I can walk you through the basics and even a few advanced features if need be.
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Yeah Reason is cool if you're gonna be using mnay samples.
 
okay, so before i make the choice... can someone guide me as to which is best? i've heard Reason, ReCycle, Propellerhead.... what program does what? and ties in with which other progs? in other words... what line would you use? ReCycle to Reason? ReCycle to FL?

thanks again for the help.

bless.
 
Just for sampling I can't say what's best, probably Recycle though because all it does is chop and process samples. I never used FL but since D.E. is saying it has a slicer, if that detects hit points I say go with what you have and know.

If you want gimme till after X-mas and I'll put together a few vids (screen shots) of the different features of Reason, Recycle, Cubase and a few other progs I have. I'll have to send it directly to you most likely because the bandwith on my website won't be able to handle the bandwidth.

I'll try to put a little something together 2nite to get it rolling if I can. It might be able to help a few others also... too bad I can't do one on FL though.
 
if i had a cam i could show a couple diff styles of sampling in fl. the fruity slicer chops up a smaple exactly like a mpc does, you can have it cut at 4-6-8-16- etc. just like th mpc, but it's nowhere near as good as a mpc as a whole picture ya feel me? the slicer does the same thing chopping wise though
 
okay, thanks DE for saying i can use the FL SLicer, i'll look for ways to learn that part of FL.

Mentalattica - check your pm's
 
YO MENT: the vids helped out a ton... but where's that bpm webpage at?? i saw the link somewhere around here, cant seem to find it.
 
Glad they helped some, I wasn't too sure...lol But Im gonna do some in depth stuff making a beat of my own to post for everyone to check out. But Reason and Recycle are monsters.
 
they got some real nice fl tutorials over at warbeats.com but you gotta sign up to watch them first , it's worth it though cuz them vids are on point.
 
BillyBo said:
okay, so before i make the choice... can someone guide me as to which is best? i've heard Reason, ReCycle, Propellerhead.... what program does what? and ties in with which other progs? in other words... what line would you use? ReCycle to Reason? ReCycle to FL?

thanks again for the help.

bless.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry if this has already been answered.. I didn't see anything as I glanced but I'm kinda in a hurry..

Anywas... We'll go from sample to finish project..

1: Wave Editor
This is what you record (maybe from vinyl), trim, and perfect the actual sample. After this step you will come out with a .WAV file (most commonly 44.1khz 24-bit). A four bar loop would be the most basic sample to pull..

2: ReCycle
In this program you will import the .WAV file. It basically preps the original sample for consumption by the next program, Reason. You will tell recycle how many bars are in the loop and where you want the "slice" points to be (among other cool features.. like changing tempo or pitch).. Make note of the BPM that it spits out because you'll use that in your Reason project.. The ouput of ReCycle is a .REX2 file... Basically it's the original .WAV file with the extra information that you've just added...

3: Reason
People call this a virtual studio program.. I call it an overgrown collection of virtual instruments and plugins.. The major drawback of this program, for hip hop, is the lack of facilities for recording any live audio (i.e. your vocals or maybe a bass guitar)... Don't get me wrong, lots of cool stuff to do here..

It's probably easiest to start with the sample (importing into the REX2 "instrument") and build around it (using the virtual instruments.. samplers for pianos and such.. drum machine for drums and hits... virtual synths for your lil john fixes.. There are also tools for eq, delay, compression, and stuff..

The ouput of Reason is mainly one of two things..

A) Audio files for importing into your DAW, where you would record vocals and do mixing... This requires "dumping down" or rendering of your beat.. And then importing it into the DAW..

B) Rewire.. This illustrious function is actually built into Reason.. It allows you to connect reason (and other like programs) to the DAW. Therefore allowing you to mix and add vocals and tweak things on both programs without "dumping down" or even closing Reason.. The one important thing to remember is Reason is a CLIENT of the DAW.. The DAW is the HOST.... Data/music "flows" from Reason into the DAW..

4: Digital Audio Workstation (DAW)
Now.. As we've said Reason, being an overgrown environment of virtual instruments, doesn't have the ability to record your vocals.. This is where the DAW comes in (Cubase, Pro Tools, or Logic, etc..).. You have many choices of routing and use..

My personal opinion is to compose, from the get go, in ReWire mode (of course it takes a fast computer to do this though)... This way you never need to use Reason's mixer or signal processing (eq and such).. Trust me, the plug-ins for your DAW will murder Reasons, on any given day with sunlight..

Mainly you want each instrument in reason to have it's own channel strip in the DAW... And I, personally, give each drum sound it's own channel strip as well.. That way you can throw your $500 compressor plug-in on that single sound (i.e. snare or kick)...

So at this point you've got your beat "sequenced" in Reason and UN-MIXED audio is coming into the DAW, through ReWire... You've mixed the beat, from within DAW, using state of the art plug-ins and now you are ready for vocals or some other "live audio"...

All ya gotta do is make a new track, in the DAW project, hook up the mic and hit record...

Mix the vocal with everything else and then "dump down" the mixed project (which will flow through the master channel.. just in case you wanted to do some "mastering" effects)...

The output of the DAW would normally be a .WAV file that is 44.1khz 16-bits... This file is now compatible with your cd burning software...

==========

There are many combonations of the steps above.. For instance, it would be more wise, in the long run, to compose with a ReWire setup and then record the audio ONTO THE DAW's tracks.. Afterwhich you would then be able to rid your computer of an extra program running (Reason/ReWire) and then start mixing (since mixing is very cpu/memory demanding..).

Another bump in quality and professional tact would be to forget about committing to master channel plugins and dump down the file to 44.1khz 24-bits WAV... Once you've done that you would create a brand new project in the DAW, specifically for mastering your finished track (that has vocals with it)... In this new project you would have A WHOLE LOT MORE PROCESSING/STABILITY to do mastering type tweaks...

Of course, even more professional would be to forget about the mastering plugs (as I wrote in the previous paragraph) and instead of making the new project and all that, you'd burn it to cd as a DATA file and then send it off to the professional mastering house ($$$)...

Another, would be to record your vocals in a "big studio", using high quality microphones (see Neumann)..

And most likely the completion of the "ultimate" in professionalism thing would be to have the mixing done at a pro "mixing house", before being sent off for mastering...


/end rambling...

Makin' any sense?

-peritus
 
^^Basically what I covered in the quick vids. I skipped step 1 because it was a .wav file I used, I just imported the whole song into recycle. Didn't touch on rewire though, that's the only way I use reason these days (rewired into cubase sx) and better believe I was struggling to remember how to use the reason sequencer...lol (shortcut keys, auto quantize etc...)

Oh yeah in Recycle you can also export the slices as seperate .wavs just incase you weren't aware Peritus I saw you mention the REX files (Gotta love Dr. Rex :) ).

But Billybo I got you on a rewire vid, basically it's using everything I used (whatever modules in reason are needed) and sequenced in Cubase instead of reason. Like Peritus mentioned reason does have eq's, compressors etc.. but they are very difficult to use and most stock plugins in other programs are definitely easier to use and better sounding.
 
Well I wasn't trying to be a "puffed up windbag"... Since I didn't watch the video I didn't know... My sincerest apologies... And yes, I realize I spelled combinations wrong.....

Dang.. What's going on around here?
 
Nothing to apologize for...lol
Just pointing it out as in "I do the same thing" rather than "Yo I already said that sh*t" ;)

Didn't catch 'combinations' and if anyone did... oh well. Nice info, glad you took the time to type it up.
 
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