New to recording... Working with hardcore/metal groups

[Russell_Mania]

Hello, I just stumbled on this group. I've never felt the need to join an online forum, but this looks like a place I may be spending a lot of time. I'm a singer/songwriter/guitarist and I have been experimenting with making my own recordings for about a year or so, however, none of my projects have been very big and I've kept things fairly simple. About a month ago, however, I upgraded my whole recording system, so I'm trying to really take things to the next level.

To help afford all this stuff I've bought on credit (as I'm a college student who is currently unemployed) I have decided to start recording other people. Don't worry, I'm not charging much, haha. I've got a couple of groups who have come to me who play heavier metal/hardcore type music, which really isn't my thing but I want it to sound decent for them - while taking into account that I don't have countless hours to spend tweaking mic settings and getting every little detail perfect. The first song I'm working on with one of the bands is coming together, but everything sounds like it is just too far away - especially the guitars. Let me explain what I'm working with first:

Macbook pro with Pro Tools M-Powered, M-audio ProFire 610, AKG Perception 420 mic, EV N/D767a mic, and a Shure SM58.
**I also have an M-Audio Axiom 49, M-Audio monitors, Reason 4, and Logic Studio 9. Beside the monitors, however, I'm not using anything else on this project**

To record the drums, I put the AKG Perception about 5 feet back and three feet above to get an overhead sound, the EV mic in the bass drum about two inches from the head, and the SM58 positioned about 2 inches from the snare. I only had two preamps for this on the Profire, so I ended up having to compress the life out of the bass drum. I just ordered a Behringer mixer today that has four preamps, so that should resolve that problem.

On the guitar tracks, I put the EV mic pointing at the edge of the cone on a Line 6 amp, the AKG mic back in the room about 5 feet from the amp, and ran the line out of the amp directly in.

I don't know if me explaining all of that really helps with anything, but I figured I should try to be as through as I could. What I'd like to know is:
1.) Can anyone recommend any "must have" equipment that I may need (that hopefully won't cost me a ton more) that I haven't listed
2.) Can someone point me in a direction to some sort of step-by-step guide that would be a good blueprint to try to follow when I'm recording. I realize that each different situation calls for a different protocol, but just something to get me in the habit of doing things a certain way.
3.) What might I be able to do to get this stuff to sound a little more "close" in the mix?
4.) And last...the drummer had a really hard time hearing the guitar player (who was playing along with him while he laid the drums down first) who was going directly into the Profire with a Pocket Pod and I had everything wide open. If I buy another headphone amp would this help? I'm using cheap Sony "studio monitors" that you can get at Walmart. Would more expensive headphones be a lot louder or would buying a headhone amp help with this?

I apologize for this being such a long post. I hope I haven't asked too many questions. I would be glad to email anyone what I have recorded, granted that you don't chap me too much for having done a bad job haha.

Thanks,
Russell

 

[RAMI]

I don't have countless hours to spend tweaking mic settings and getting every little detail perfect.

Then don't expect your recordings to sound as good as you'd like them to.

1.) Can anyone recommend any "must have" equipment that I may need (that hopefully won't cost me a ton more) that I haven't listed

Bass traps and general room treatment. Probably the most ignored part of the recording process, and one of the most important.

 

[Dani Pace]

Thumbs up on the bass traps and other room treatment. Most metal/hardcore bands want to play loud (on stage and in the studio) so room treatment is a must have thing. Also, depending on the singer (lots of screaming and growl?) you may want to try several mics to find what works best for the particular voice. So far I've only worked with a couple of hardcore bands and both wanted to keep the sound pretty raw, that made recording them a lot easier on me. Good luck.

 

[gcapel]

On the guitar tracks, I put the EV mic pointing at the edge of the cone on a Line 6 amp, the AKG mic back in the room about 5 feet from the amp, and ran the line out of the amp directly in.

Russell

With a heavy tone w/ the guitar cab you don't need the room mic or the line out feed. Stick with the one dynamic mic at the cone, but track the rythem guitar multiple times layering. Then pan the different layers to taste in the mix.

The drums I belive will be the most problematic. You are having to mix before it goes in the DAW. What would be more practical is to get an 8 channel interface (on board pre's or not). That way you can track each mic isolated in the DAW not being stuck with a "cant go back drum mix".

 

[Russell_Mania]

I appreciate the replies! In terms of doing room treatment and bass traps, I did a little searching around about this and I'm a little confused about how many I would need. The room I'm recording in is a rectangular shaped room, I'm guessing it's about 12' x 16' with a fairly low (7.5') ceiling. What would be the best and most affordable way to go about treating a room like this? I wouldn't mind building the stuff myself - I've seen a couple of tutorials for building stuff like this but I haven't found anything that really explains placement. I guess every room is different, but I got no idea what I'm doing, haha.

 

[Dani Pace]

The number of bass traps you need depends on how "boomy" your room sounds. Perfect would be all corners including wall/ceiling corners. This isn't allways practical, so aim for at least two corners diagonal from each other. Go full length from the floor to ceiling. The traps need to span at least two feet across the corner, this takes up a lot of space but is worth it when it comes to sound improvement. If drums (especialy cymbals) are too harsh sounding add a cloud over them, this works wonders with heavy handed drummers. If you have a problem with early reflections hang absorber panels on the walls, use as many as you need but don't try to cover the entire walls. I know this sounds like a lot but a well treated room makes a world of difference and will make your job as engineer a lot easier.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

I don't have countless hours to spend tweaking mic settings and getting every little detail perfect. The first song I'm working on with one of the bands is coming together, but everything sounds like it is just too far away - especially the guitars.

The answer to your problem is literally in the sentence right before your problem.

As an example, the last drum track I recorded we spent 5 hours tuning the drums, arranging the parts, moving the drums, moving gobos (baffles), even discussing how the stick should strike the skins, before I even walked over to grab the first microphone out of the locker.

"In your face" takes time.

 

[Russell_Mania]

I think I must have come off the wrong way in that statement about not having "countless hours." I certainly realize that it takes time to get things to sound right, and I don't mind spending time setting stuff up and experimenting. But for the purposes with these guys that I'm recording for next to no money, they would be happy with anything. If this were in more of a professional setting and I was actually making a little money, then I would definitely be more tedious about this. Like I said, I'm pretty new to all of this so I'm just looking for any advice I can get.

Thanks Dani. I've got a friend who has built a few custom room treatments, and he is going to come check it out and help me. I will definitely try what you said.

 

[partonkevin]

I think that you need more mics. I used to record bands like that to 4 track and I would have to submix a lot. I would close mic everything and forget about room mics. That alone should solve the "far away" sound. An 8 input interface would be great, but there are ways around that. I like to track live, especially the rhythm tracks. You could submix the drums through a cheap board. How many tracks can you record at once? It would be great if you could get kicks,snare, and a stereo tom/overhead mix. The mics wouldn't even have to be real expensive. I commonly use low cost vocal mics that I find used for $35 or so.

 

[vasko]

About the guitars sounding too far: you should compress guitar tracks. It is difficult to generalize, but you can start with these compressor settings: tresh:-24dB, ratio: 1:6, attack: 10ms, release: 250ms, and gain as much as you need (say between 6 and 10dB). These are not definite values, but the starting point. Experiment within 15%(+/-) of these values, and I'm sure you'll find the sound you like.

 

[Russell_Mania]

I think that you need more mics. I used to record bands like that to 4 track and I would have to submix a lot. I would close mic everything and forget about room mics. That alone should solve the "far away" sound. An 8 input interface would be great, but there are ways around that. I like to track live, especially the rhythm tracks. You could submix the drums through a cheap board. How many tracks can you record at once? It would be great if you could get kicks,snare, and a stereo tom/overhead mix. The mics wouldn't even have to be real expensive. I commonly use low cost vocal mics that I find used for $35 or so.

Yeah, from what I have gathered in my reading, metal drum miking is all about being close. My m-audio interface allows 6 inputs, with two inputs with pre-amps, two 1/4 inputs w/o preamps, and two digital inputs. I actually ordered a cheap Behringer sound board that should be coming in the mail tomorrow that has 12 inputs with 4 preamps. In terms of decent mics, I listed those. I also have a few cheap-o no name mics, and the Behringer board is coming with a cheap AudioTechnica mic. So, I think in all I have 3 mics I would consider good, 2 that are just cheap-os, and then I'll have the one that comes with the board which I have no idea how it will sound. I need to get either some clips or some stands - I only have 2 boom stands. In terms of the mics in maybe at $30-$50 range, what would be the best sounding? Musicians friend sells the hell out of those MXL 990 and 991 mics and they are relatively cheap, does anyone have any experience with them? Would I even want to use something like that on the drums?

 

[Russell_Mania]

About the guitars sounding too far: you should compress guitar tracks. It is difficult to generalize, but you can start with these compressor settings: tresh:-24dB, ratio: 1:6, attack: 10ms, release: 250ms, and gain as much as you need (say between 6 and 10dB). These are not definite values, but the starting point. Experiment within 15%(+/-) of these values, and I'm sure you'll find the sound you like.

I will experiment with the compression then, thanks. I was already compressing one of the direct in guitar tracks, but I don't remember what ratio I was using. I usually start with some of the presets in pro-tools and just experiment with them until the track is loud enough without clipping.