new to Cakewalk....

  • Thread starter Thread starter strungout
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dopey said:
you can do the mixer thing, but then it's like a glorified 4/8 track whatever. You're just using a hard drive instead of tape. If you do that, you don't even need to get a new soundcard. You would want to spend your money on a quality mixer to keep the noise floor down, high qual cables, then you could just run the mixer into a direct box (or two, since two channels)then into your sound card. That would be the cheapest way that would give you decent results. You really can't overlook the D.I. box though. Without it the low end will get cut bad, the recordings will come out THIN, and the tone will be CRAP- the recordings will sound amateurish. It's been done, you should find out how it worked out for them, but then you're talking 200 bucks instead of 1000 :-)
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Run the mixer into a di box and then into a sound card? Why would you want to do this? Would'nt that change the line level out signal from the mixer to instrument level out?
 
that's a good point Travis. I've never done it like that so I am speculating a bit, but I know that you can't just run a guitar right into the sound card. I guess if you amplify it before you run it into the mixer it would be okay, but otherwise, you would need to use a preamp or DI box. Unless you get a powered mixer, or have a preamp on the soundcard, and not just the 'mic boost' on a soundblaster. I used to be happy with the recordings I would get from running my guitar into the soundcard after a couple pedals to boost the signal, but after I tried a DI box i noticed how thin the older recordings sounded.... then i got an interface with preamps, and now I just use that. For the guitar you would want to go DI>mixer>soundcard ... so I guess you could run the DI after the mixer to boost everything if you needed to, but I've never done either, I just know you need a DI box in there if you don't have a proper preamp.
 
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Ok, this is how I understand it. Mixer inputs are mic level and line level and the outs are line level. DI box inputs are instrument level and the outs are line level. Both a mixer and a di box convert mic level and instrument level signals to line level signals for sending to things like sound cards and power amps. Sound card ins and outs are line level, with the exception of a mic input on a sound card, which is mic level. Connecting an instrument or mic level out to a line level in, sounds bad and vice versa for connecting a line level out, to a intrument level or mic level in.

This is why running a guitar directly into a sound card sounds bad. The guitar is putting out an instrument level signal to the sound card's line level signal. It's unmatched. Guitar pedals also put out instrument level signals. Some guitar effects boxes also have line level out for going directly to a mixer or sound card. You would'nt want to send the line level outs of a mixer to the instrument level ins of a DI box.

Power amp inputs are line level and the outputs put out a gigantic signal compared to mic, instrument, and line levels. The only time you need a power amp is for powering speakers. A power amp has no place in a recording signal chain. A power amp is used for amplifying low level signals like the ones mentioned above. If you happen to use a powered mixer during recording, you will need to bypass the power amp in one way or another. Feeding the power amp outs to anything other than speakers is gonna sound bad and probably damage the power amp or the device that it's feeding power into.

Does this make any sense?

Here's an easier way to look at it. Signals must be matched so send line level outs to line level ins, mic level outs to mic level ins, and instrument level outs to instrument level ins. That's really all there is to it........and don't send power amp outs to anything other than speakers or dummy loads acting like speakers.
 
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sorry to interupt this, but I have been looking at interfaces (still looking at options ...& learning :rolleyes: ) for guitar, vocals, and bass. And they all say they have this and that many inputs & outputs. I always thought you could plug a mic into the in's and out's, but I'm realizing that it might be for outboard stuff, am I correct? So say that I mic up a guitar cab, I can only plug the cable straight into a mic jack on the interface w/ phantom power or a mic pre (onboard of course), not into an in or out? And MIDI is used for keyboards basically, right? not regular guitars or basses?


say that I use this . I would only be able to run/track 2 mics through this similtaniously, or not similtanious, my choice. although, since they are each on different channels, could I use them at the same time?


could anyone explain what latency means? :) and what word clocks are used for?

I'm looking more at firewire console and a mixer now for recording. firewire is easy to take anywhere I go, and a mixer for mixing down the drums. good plans, or not?
 
strungout said:
sorry to interupt this, but I have been looking at interfaces (still looking at options ...& learning :rolleyes: ) for guitar, vocals, and bass. And they all say they have this and that many inputs & outputs. I always thought you could plug a mic into the in's and out's, but I'm realizing that it might be for outboard stuff, am I correct? So say that I mic up a guitar cab, I can only plug the cable straight into a mic jack on the interface w/ phantom power or a mic pre (onboard of course), not into an in or out? And MIDI is used for keyboards basically, right? not regular guitars or basses?


say that I use this . I would only be able to run/track 2 mics through this similtaniously, or not similtanious, my choice. although, since they are each on different channels, could I use them at the same time?


could anyone explain what latency means? :) and what word clocks are used for?

I'm looking more at firewire console and a mixer now for recording. firewire is easy to take anywhere I go, and a mixer for mixing down the drums. good plans, or not?
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You can find most of these answers using google. for example: "what is midi?".

You can usually use all of an interfaces ins and outs simultaneously.

Oh yea, sorry about hijacking your thread with all the input/output stuff. :p
 
I have questions about mixers too. If you look at this Mackie. Why is there only 6 mic inputs when its a 14 tracker? If I got cables with a 1/4" jack on one side and a mic input on the other, could I use the other tracks? As I said before, I need just about 12 mic inputs on a mixer. Is there any mixers with a mic input for every track?


And whats anybody's take on the FirePod? seems like a nice interface for long term usage.


btw- I dont mind other questions on here, more interesting talk for me to listen to. :)
 
strungout said:
I have questions about mixers too. If you look at this Mackie. Why is there only 6 mic inputs when its a 14 tracker? If I got cables with a 1/4" jack on one side and a mic input on the other, could I use the other tracks? As I said before, I need just about 12 mic inputs on a mixer. Is there any mixers with a mic input for every track?


And whats anybody's take on the FirePod? seems like a nice interface for long term usage.


btw- I dont mind other questions on here, more interesting talk for me to listen to. :)
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There are only 6 mic inputs on that board because that's what the cost allows. You want more mic preamps in a board? You gotta pay more money. XLR to 1/4" cables are just gonna let you send mic level signals to line level signals. In other words, you won't be plugging your mics into mic preamps and it's gonna sound bad. Read my post above about all that stuff. I'm sure the firepod is just as worthy as any other low budget gear. Do you really have 12 nice sounding mics with stands and cables to use at once? I think you're being a bit unrealistic. Start simple man. When you actually start recording some tracks, you might find out that you don't need alot of gear or you might not even enjoy the whole recording thing as much as you think you will. Also, I have heard plenty of nice sounding drum tracks around here that were done with only a few mics. Go talk to PhilGood in the Drum or Mic threads.
 
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I think that's good advice, you don't wanna spend a ton of money to find out that you really don't need it. And time is your friend here, you can always wait a while longer and learn more, but once you buy it... well, you're kinda stuck with it even if you learn about something better next month.
 
strungout said:
Glad to be here! :) :rolleyes:

While I ingest all this info, I plan to get a mixer w/ about 12 tracks. Whats a noice cheap one, I was looking at behringer.

And whats anybodys take on which Cakewalk to record with. Is there a sound difference? Which is easier to use?
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You /were/ looking at a Behringer. Now you are going to look at something that's not a waste of money--which is almost anything that isn't a Behringer. Even the Behry stuff that sounds good at first (of which does exist) doesn't sound good for long. I worked at Sam Ash, and the return rate on Behry stuff was unbelievable, something like 5-6 times greater than the other brands. If you're buying a mixer and this will be your first piece, better off making it count. I'd say find a used Mackie in the VLZ series--great quality, and you can get a 12 channel for $2-300 if you're frugal. The preamps are nice, and you've got a ton of headroom--not to mention the VLZ's first four channels all have TRS returns (not balanced, unfortunately, but they're there). Some people will probably say differently...good for them. :-P

I don't have experience with Sonar 4 yet, however my 4 years with 2 and 3 have shown me that once you get over the learning curve, things are really smooth. The home studio series, from what I remember, is very similiar in layout; the main differences lie in functuality and bundled plug-ins, which, especially the latter, can affect sound quality, though sound quality ultimately comes down to your interface in a DAW situation. I'd say wait for more feedback and do about an hour of googling--then you'll have a much much better idea.

Edit: Remind me to never use hybrid view again--I didn't even know there were responses to that post. Oy.
 
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I have a Firepod and it's been working REALLY well for me. I've been tracking using all 8 ins at a time into Sonar without a hitch. I think the pre's sound great and have really nice headroom, but from what I've read around here, I'm in the minority on that one. Drivers are solid on my PC, and I've been achieving nice low latencies.
 
Have any of you?

Ok, so I am following the conversation here. I got duped pretty bad by a local music store! I just wanted a small outfit. Here is what I have been playing with and I am junking really fast.
Tascam US-122 (yuch)
N-Track (sort of ok)
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 (good, but not what I want)

Here is what I am moving too!
Mackie Onyx 1220
M-Audio Delta 66
SawPro
SoundForge8

Between all this I feel that I can finally get some decent sound recorded! Too bad I didn't know all this before, I could have saved some money!
 
fenderlady said:
Ok, so I am following the conversation here. I got duped pretty bad by a local music store! I just wanted a small outfit. Here is what I have been playing with and I am junking really fast.
Tascam US-122 (yuch)
N-Track (sort of ok)
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 (good, but not what I want)

Here is what I am moving too!
Mackie Onyx 1220
M-Audio Delta 66
SawPro
SoundForge8

Between all this I feel that I can finally get some decent sound recorded! Too bad I didn't know all this before, I could have saved some money!
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Soundforge8 is what now? and I'm guessing SawPro is a software...?
 
Say I went and purchased a Firepod and a Mackie VLZ series mixer. If I plugged a mic into the mixer and then thru the firepod, would the Mackie mic-pre help the mic-pre in the Firepod? would either one get bypassed? Would it sound like total butt?
 
On the Firepod, if you use inputs 1 or 2 or both and use a 1/4" cable, you'll bypass the Firepods pre's - but only on those two channels. If you run anything else into the other 6 channels, you will be using the Firepod's pre's. That's what I understand anyway. Will it sound like total butt? Dunno. I like the pre's on the Firepod, but I've seen people around here not impressed with them. I feel they are clean, low noise, and have nice headroom. I wasn't "blown away" when I heard them, but they are highly usable and don't color the damn sound.
 
warble said:
On the Firepod, if you use inputs 1 or 2 or both and use a 1/4" cable, you'll bypass the Firepods pre's - but only on those two channels. If you run anything else into the other 6 channels, you will be using the Firepod's pre's. That's what I understand anyway. Will it sound like total butt? Dunno. I like the pre's on the Firepod, but I've seen people around here not impressed with them. I feel they are clean, low noise, and have nice headroom. I wasn't "blown away" when I heard them, but they are highly usable and don't color the damn sound.
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thanks warble! you seem to know your firepod :)
 
strungout said:
Soundforge8 is what now? and I'm guessing SawPro is a software...?
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Sound Forge is a Sony product for destructive editing of mono and stereo files. It can handle video as well.

SAWPro is a multtrack recording software. After further evaluation I am more inclined to purchase Sonar 4 Producer. Seems it now does everything SAWPro does and more.
 
Well I settled on this for my setup:

Mackie Onyx 1620 with Firewire
M-Audio BX8a Studio Monitors (Using the balanced outputs on the Mackie to the monitors.) :D
Sonar 4 Producer

What is cool with the Firewire, I can dump 16 tracks to Sonar all at once. It also provides a 2 channel feed back to the Mackie. :)
 
fenderlady said:
Well I settled on this for my setup:

Mackie Onyx 1620 with Firewire
M-Audio BX8a Studio Monitors (Using the balanced outputs on the Mackie to the monitors.) :D
Sonar 4 Producer

What is cool with the Firewire, I can dump 16 tracks to Sonar all at once. It also provides a 2 channel feed back to the Mackie. :)
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nice! that mackie sounds like it got it goin on! how much is one of those new? and it has firewire and 16 tracks at once? but how many mic inputs/preamps?

I was thinking about daisy-chaining 2 firepods myself for 16 good mic preamps :) pricey though :(
 
strungout said:
nice! that mackie sounds like it got it goin on! how much is one of those new? and it has firewire and 16 tracks at once? but how many mic inputs/preamps?

I was thinking about daisy-chaining 2 firepods myself for 16 good mic preamps :) pricey though :(
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Why on earth would you need 16 identical preamps????? Do you seriously think you'll ever need 16 *simultaneous* mic inputs?
 
fraserhutch said:
Why on earth would you need 16 identical preamps????? Do you seriously think you'll ever need 16 *simultaneous* mic inputs?
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never know. i could do a live show with that. but I dont know when i would wanna. and as I said before for studio use, for drums. not only could I get everything piece miced, but i could still have around 4 distance mics left for placement.
 
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