New tape striped-but....

RICK FITZPATRICK

RICK FITZPATRICK

New member
Hello everyone. God do I love analog. You HAVE to if you use it. Tonight my best friend came over for our weekly traditional laugh, listen, practice, and fool around with analog sessions. We had a ball. Since he had brought a new 1/2" 456, after our practice(I say that loosly), we decided that we have one reel striped already, so we figured we would go ahead and stripe the new tape on my #1 MSR-16 for TC playback on #2 MSR-16 when I finish cabling #2 later. This way the tape will be ready. Ok, all of a sudden a question came to mind. Heres the first one:
Can you record timecode onto a tape, recording it on a machine that is NOT going to be the machine that will ultimately read it? In other words, when I put this tape on the second MSR later, will it play the TC correctly, even though it was recorded on my #1 machine?(#1 is master, #2 will be slave)(later, all midi stuff will slave also)
I thread tape. Run 30 sec leader I set tape counter to 000, and advance tape one minute. I start TC record sequence, and hiting record/play, I let it run, midizer is generating TC. After about 5 minutes, I realize that the bar meter on trk 16 isn't showing anything. ARRGGGGGRR. I stop. Hmmm. What a moron. I had forgot to arm the track. Ok, live and learn. Now what to do. Ok, I think I'll ......opps,
Second question.:
At this point , how do I now return the dispay to the TC default which is 00(Hr) 59(min)30(sec)? (This gives a 30 second run before 00 00 00) It ran to 01(hr)07(min)06(sec).
I decide to rtz which is before time code started.. I hit play. Runs 1 min and....Holy cow, the display shows TC running! Hmmmm. How can this be? The display shows the time code advancing even though the track wasn't armed. Ok, what gives? Not only that, I thought smpte was in real hrs, min, seconds(and frames also)Well, the machine ran apprx 5 real minutes. How could it have possibly went past 1 hr on the display?
Now I am perplexed. I decide to leave this TC sequence in place, and advance the tape for a minute or two and try this again. Hmmm. Better turn off midizer to reset TC display to default. It works. This time I arm the trk, and start the TC record sequence again, this time making sure that the bar meter is registering the signal. It is. Which is a steady 0db(u?), I assume because its TC. I record TC to the end of tape. Manual says exit, rewind, check display button for TC. Its on. I stop Now manual says "Set up" for synch must be performed for the midiizer to learn "charachteristics" of transports. I perform "set up" even though I only have the master connected. It completes set up. I rtz to beginning of the tape. Crap. I realize I am at the beginning of first TC attempt. Damn. I love analog but SHEEEEEEZ its tough being an amateur. Well, HR.com time again!!!!

... I KNOW, I KNOW,....."what the hell did he ask"?....hell, even asking questions is confusing!!!:confused:
Doggon, this is LOOOOOOONG already, and I've only got 2 questions posted and had 10:( (hey, gotta have some fun here too:D) thanks guys!
fitz
 
At this point , how do I now return the dispay to the TC default which is 00(Hr) 59(min)30(sec)? (This gives a 30 second run before 00 00 00) It ran to 01(hr)07(min)06(sec).
Click to expand...

Rick - What was the timecode reading after you did the RTZ? Was it 00:59:30? If so, it makes sanse that after 5 minutes it reads ~ 01:05:30 no?

Kevin.
 
Hi Kevin, thanks for the response. I'm glad you could figure out my questions!

Was it 00:59:30?
Click to expand...
YES
If so, it makes sanse that after 5 minutes it reads ~01:05:30 no?
Click to expand...

Well, thats kind of what I'm confused about- 01:05:30 Is'nt this 01(hr)05(min)30(sec)
It should read- 00(hr)05(min)30(sec)- no? Anyway, I'm gonna do some tests tonight. I'm a real novice at this. I've read the manual over and over, but my memory sucks,(I'm 58:eek: ) so its hard to remember everything. Besides, some things are real vague in the manual. Like I said, I love analog, but it sucks being an amateur!
Thanks Kevin. BTW, hows the finishing touchs coming on your studio. I'm jealous!!
fitz:D
 
No, 5 minutes after 00:59:00 is 01:05:00, so that is completely correct. It's also a perfectly reasonable start time for a song.

Btw, that one minute space you have between the tape lead and the start of the timecode, fill that with a 440hz tone at 0db. It's good to use for tuning, and you get a nice 0db reference too. That way that minute isn't wasted.

Personally I start the test tone more or less as fast as possible, and keep it goimg for 30 seconds. That's OK by me. Then I start taping. But I guess how much slack you have is a matter of taste. I don't like to waste tape, because I hate it when I run out of tape and have 15 seconds left of the song. :)
 
Rick - the studio is coming along good thanks. We did a ton of sheetrocking this past weekend... I'll be taping & jointing all week :) We also have a couple of bands ready to go if we can be up and running by mid december... sheetrock - paint - carpet - solder - solder - solder!!!!

Regarding your question about SMTE working on both decks... as Regbro said - it should work fine. Just make sure both decks are aligned the same and that they are running at the same speed.
.. another $0.02 for what it's worth.

Kevin.
 
Hi Kevin, hey, thanks a lot. I'll take every .02 cents I can get:D Glad your getting to the end of the tunnel! Bet you can't wait to take off the carpenter hat and put on the engineers:p
fitz
 
OOPS! I didn't see your reply regebro! It snuk in there:eek: OH! I get it now. Appreciate the help. Damn, some of this stuff is new to me. Its taken a long time just to get things all cabled etc. Trying to get to the fun stuff. MULTITRACKING. What kind of transports you using regebro?
fitz
 
Howdy all, well, one by one I'm gonna keep crossing these questions off the list. Only
39,589 to go:D How bout this one. Once time code is on the tape correctly......
heres my plan. I have 10 tunes, arranged in BB11. I'll be dumping as many as I can via the audio outs on the sound card, to a track on 1 master tape or more,as rough tracks(acting as a guide and a full drum click track). Then comes live drums/bass. Then I plan on recording acoustic guitar tracks next. Then I'm going to slave a computer sequencer(cakewalk)to the tape, via the midiizer/tape smpte. This is where I start getting a little confused. I have a keyboard player thats going to record different various midi tracks to cakewalk. Then I will edit these, and assign the tracks to instruments via midi, to a Triton rackmount module. Then I'll record these to tape via the audio outputs on the Triton being midi driven by smpte or midi from the smpte tape track, via the midiizer, driving the sequencer, driving the triton (whew) Then comes live guitar, harmonic, steel, fiddle etc. tracks. Then vocals, and overdubs Thats when I'll add the second MSR in synch for more tracks as needed(wheeeew!) Thats the plan.
But like they say, "the best laid plans of mice and men" ha!!!
Ok, I know this sounds fucked up. Where is my plan going to fail? Or be so difficult that it is stupid!
fitz:confused:
 
Hello regebro, sorry 'bout that.:rolleyes: I didn't know how you refered to your "tape decks". I look stupid enough most of the time, and try to avoid it if possible.:D
I appreciate your help. I am a total amateur at this, but since I have the stuff, why not use it, right? I could only dream of this stuff when it first came out, but now, thanks to digital, I could finally purchase it. Little did I know how long it would take to cable it, and the learning curve that compares to a shuttle craft!
fitz:)
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
... I have 10 tunes, arranged in BB11....
Click to expand...

What is BB11?

A thought:

If you're going to add MIDI-synchronized tracks on a sequencer after recording audio tracks, you're going to be best off if you record the audio tracks in time with some sort of MIDI tempo map.

An easy way to do this: start with a drum pattern -- it can just be a click track, or a fully-programmed drum part -- on a MIDI drum machine. Set up a MIDI tempo map, however you do that with the Midiizer. Use the Midiizer (with the tempo map in it) to have the drum machine chase the tape deck. Record bass and drums using the sound from the drum machine as a click track or guide. Now, when you want to add a MIDI-synchronized tracks on a sequencer, you can use the same MIDI tempo map.

If you don't do this, the bars and beats on the sequencer won't correspond to the bars and beats in the music. You can still add a MIDI-synchronized part (just set the tempo to some arbitrary rate and create a MIDI tempo map), but the bars and beats won't mean anything. What the sequencer calls the first beat of the 10th bar will fall where it falls: it might be somewhere in between the 3rd and 4th beats of the 6th bar, or whatever. So long as you're using the sequencer merely as a sort of "MIDI tape recorder" this should work okay, but trying to manipulate anything in MIDI will be a struggle.
 
One other note: I usually don't record MIDI-synchronized tracks onto the multi-track tape at all. I just mix the output from the synth module (running in sync with the tape) at mixdown. Then again, I don't have 30 tracks to work with ....
 
And one other note, on tones.

The standard basic tone for checking level, etc. seems to be 1k. To check azimuth, you probably want 10k. To check EQ, 15k and 100k come in handy.

On a 2-track mixdown that you're going to send somewhere else to master, or even just to be reproduced, you're going to want to include what people expect. Something like 30 seconds, or a minute, each of 1k, 10k, 15k and 100. I don't think everyone necessarily includes all four of these, but the first two seem pretty important. Particular people may have very specific requirements (like that each tone be a full minute, or even more).

On a multi-track that's never going to be played by anyone but you, you're more free to do what you want. I'd suggest that 1k and 10k are pretty handy, though, for level and azimuth.
 
Hello sjjohnston, I bet you think I am a complete moron, trying to do this with no experience whatsoever. I probably am, but sure is fun getting there:D I want to thank you for ALL the times(at the tascam forum too!) you have tried to enlighten me. And now, you've said the MAGIC words. Tempo Map. Thats what I thought. Just needed some one to reafirm my suspicions. Ok, the BB11 is Band in a Box v11:eek: (I hated to say it too loud in case I started the whole forum to break out in laughter!) But actually, if your familiar with the 60 chord system, BB11 is absolutely fantastic for quickly laying out songs by punching in the roman numerals. That way you can change to any key you want by simply telling punching it in. Then I can copy portions of progressions to other songs and hit the key. Works great. My main purpose though, is to build the TEMPO MAPS simply by dumping the file into the midiizer.(at least that is what the manual suggests) This is where I get confused. Even with your explaination. It takes me awhile to grasp concepts sometimes.
IF I build the tempo maps with the BB 11, can't I then dump the file via audio to a track on the MSR, and it will be in the correct location and time because of what? .....SMPTE the tempo maps or midi?, .(I havn't tried it yet cause I'm still building 2 more tunes in BB.) This track will be a click track sort of, and the rough music layout of the tune. All on tape. Maybe I am missing something else, like comprehension skills:eek: Anyway, I'll read your reply 3 more times. Maybe a lightbulb wil go on!Duh
HaHa!! Hey sjjohnston, do you play? Write? I'm very interested in hearing peoples stuff
especially if they recorded it. Well, I'll shut up now. Besides, I'm working on my studio
to accomplish my mission. Liftf off is Sat. night. I'm checking the weather now:D I've got my second MSR half cabled. Still have to finish one Dsub for the 2nd midiizer cable. YOU HELPED ME WITH the first one over a year ago! Thanks a mill!(by the way, you should see the arm I am mounting on my console for the midiizer. I'll post pics as soon as I finish)..... yes, I'm done :rolleyes:
fitz:)
 
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