New studio space help!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Velvet Elvis
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Velvet Elvis

Velvet Elvis

Ahh humma humma humma
Hello all...

My wife and I bit the bullet this year and finally decided to build our own house. Everything was great until we actually found out how small some of the rooms are :)

Anyhow... I have a bit of room for my studio, but want to figure out the best way to use the space.

I basically have two rooms (areas more like) that I am going to build in, but want to see what you all think.

The first space is approx. 18x21 ft with an 8ft ceiling... the walls are ALL solid concrete up to the I-beams that hold the first floor. The only opening in the room is where the doorway will be (which is angled in one of the corners).

How would some of you studio designers use this space? I (at the very least) would like to get some sort of recording room and a vocal booth out of the space.

Ideally, I'd like to fit EVERYTHING in there, but I know that's a pipe dream (there wouldn't be enough useful room).

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Velvet Elvis
 
Hello Velvet Elvis, I'm sure there are many people here who can offer help, me included. But I like to know what the sizes of your existing equipment are in plan view. If I can punch in the dimensions of your console, desk, rackmounts etc I can help you better. Just list your items that are seperate, and take up floor space. BTW, you have a mansion compared to my little 9' x 11' bedroom studio. And I put a 42"x104" console, closet cabinet for 2 MSR-16's etc in mine. But I have ways of using space that are very different, as I have to use every cubic inch of space. Anyway, if you can give us dimensions of your stuff, I'll give it a shot.
fitz:)
 
Fitz,

Thanks for offering some help... yeah I probably should have included some equipment.

Right now I have a Mackie 24x8, which is approx. 37 inches wide and 29 inches deep.

It is flanked by two Mackie sidecars, which are approx. 24 inches wide and 29 inches deep (each).

I also have two custom built vertical racks, which are 21 inches wide and about 36 inches deep, but they will be replaced with a producer's desk type rack setup when I get into the new space.

All of my recorders are ADAT, so they all go in the rack.

My monitors are Event 20/20 and NS10s... I'm thinking of soffit mounting the 20/20's to get them out of the way as far as speaker stands etc are concerned.

Does that help?

Thanks,
Velvet Elvis
 
Ok, that will work. Couple of other things, do you plan on recording live drums? What is the ceiling like when you move in, open joists, or what? Any HVAC ducts below the joists? And do you know what your going to shieth the concrete walls with, or are you waiting for suggestions? Are you going to tie into the existing HVAC? When do you move in? There will be more, but this will give me a clue to some things to look out for from the outset.
fitz
 
Fitz,

Ceiling is completely exposed I-beams. There will be minimal ductwork (not in place yet) as it is in a secluded area of the house (its actually below a room that sticks off the back of the house).

I have no idea how I will treat the concrete etc. I'm not sure how much it will need, as it is solid concrete with only the top 4 inches of it above grade. The I-beams are bolted directly to it. I'm looking for any and all suggestions for how the room could be built up/out.

I would like to record drums... yes.

We move in sometime in January, but I will be doing a great deal of work in the house prior to them. The exterior first floor walls went up yesterday (they are CRUISING on this house).

Velvet Elvis
 
Here is a VERY rough drawing of the space. There are no windows... and as I said, the only opening in the concrete is the doorway (which is open right now).

All the walls are concrete poured however thick basement walls normally are. The floor is solid concrete. The ceiling is made up of pre-fab I-beams sitting on a wooden sill bolted to the top of the concrete walls.

Velvet Elvis
 

Attachments

Hello Velvet Elvis, have you pre planned anything for this space, as far as HVAC, or the flooring above or anything that alters the normal construction, as to improving the isolation in the basement? You said the 1st floor walls went up already, which means they have already laid the flooing framing etc. Correct? It would have been easier to do things for isolation BEFORE they put the walls up, but if its already done, oh well. Besides, its one more expense, just cheaper and easier, and better when done in sthe right sequence. The main problem with trying to do this over the net, is knowing about your ducting. If you can, take a pic of the ceiling once they get the ducting in,.although it would be better to get the studio planned so ducting can be done correctly for the studio BEFORE it gets installed. If your tieing into the house system, its better to plan in baffled plenums now. This is the difficult stuff over the net. Anyway, I'll still give it a shot, although I'm no expert. But like they say, there is no such thing as a "perfect room"!;)
fitz
 
Rick,

The floor above the studio is done... is your standard plywood on top of I-beam with carpet and pad on it.

NONE of the ductwork has been done as of yet, and I'm honestly not sure how they will be doing some of it, as that little doorway is the only way two and from the area (and the master bedroom is what's above the area). So I imagine the airconditioning will come through that doorway somehow.

Space wise, what do you see being able to fit in that area (assuming the best for everything)? Live room only? Live room + vocal booth? Control room + a couple of vocal booths?

Am I living a pipe dream or is that actually a decent amount of useable space?

(I can take pictures this weekend)

Velvet Elvis
 
Does this work, I did really quick and Im not sure it will translate.


SoMm
 
Son...

That looks cool... won't those rooms be awfully small in that small of an area?

That's definitely the idea though... I'd love to get as much into the space as possible (I do have some additional room just the other side of the doorway... probably a 10x12ft area.

Velvet
 
Am I living a pipe dream or is that actually a decent amount of useable space?
Click to expand...
No, its not a pipedream. Just a series compromises.

Hi Velvet Elvis, I did a quick layout last night. You know, anyone who does this is going to come up with their own version, and John Sayer is the best at it. But I don't do too bad. What it comes down to for a space this size is compromise. Do one thing this way and you have to compromise in another area, right. As far as I'm concerned you have a nice space. Shit, my bedroom "studio' is a total compromise, ha! It all boils down to a few things though, so let me ask you some more questions, ok. That way I can get the compromises in the right places:D And it will determine an outline for the extent of iso construction(and budget)
1. Are you going to do a lot of recording of other people? For $? Bands?(i.e for fun or profit? Or is it mostly for yourself, and your band or friends?
2. To what level are you recording(i.e. will you have your mix's mastered?)
3. Do you have a budget already?
4. Since the studio is below the bedroom, will you be recording drums or loud instruments late at night? Ha! thats a tough one, but doable depending on how bad you want it"
5. Whats more important to you, a correct(as possible) monitoring environment or recording environment(i.e. I have neither, but I track in my little room and monitor in headphones which suck, but mine is NOT a recording studio, its a place to have fun! And boy do I have a ball!)
6. How tolerant is your significant other :D
7. Is your general contractor for the house approachable. Can you talk to him? Or is this one of those deals where you sign the papers and don't see it till you move in?
Or are you the one dealing with the GC?
8. Before we go ANY further, can you get a plan for the HVAC, because at this point if you plan your studio without knowing what they are going to do, your asking for one big headache later!
9. Are you going to be the "builder" of the studio, or are you hireing a contractor later
or now, while their building the house?
10. If you are going to be the builder, are you familiar with construction, hvac, electrical etc. etc.

Ok, thats enough for the moment. You asked for help, and this is the way to get the info that will help you the most. Like I said there will be more. That is if you are truly interested in building this with the least amount of headaches. Anyone can provide you with a plan. But that doesn't mean it will work without tearing out all your new ductwork later, or any number of things that providing info now will eliminate from the "murphys law" syndrome. You'll have enough of those as it is.:eek:
I want to restate what I said before though. I am no expert, but I can extract enough information from you so we can post significant questions to other members who are more knowledgeable in certain areas of studio design and construction. Like John Sayer, he is the most experienced at design and construction, but he is very busy. I am sure, if he has time, he'll post a plan. As may others. All I can do is ask the questions, get a plan togeather and post it, and let the others suggest ways to make it better. So, we'll get this started. But to get the plan going in the right direction, answer those questions for the time being. And yes, I think you can have it all-a Control Room, vocal booth and drum/live room. Given the space though, they will each have compromises. It is identifying those compromises and determining if you can live with them that is important. There are many ways to lay this out. It is the info you provide that will narrow the choices.
fitz:)
 
That's definitely the idea though... I'd love to get as much into the space as possible (I do have some additional room just the other
Click to expand...
OOPS, just saw that. That would be extremely important to the choices to be made now. Can you provide an additional layout to show that room, and are you really going to use that space. It will make all the differance in the world to have that space included.
fitz:D
 
Rick,

1. Mostly my own band, commercial (radio/tv) work, with an occasional band... but I do want to be able to do live drums and amps etc.

2. I will be mastering most of what comes out of the studio... I'm contracted with a record company already and prefer recording at my own pace in my own environment.

3. What's a budget? ;-) No... not yet... its going to be chunks at a time.

4. Most likely not... but I do want my wife to be able to tolerate being in the rest of the house etc... the quieter the better.

5. Ideally I want one room of each... I want the recording room (seperate room) to be a nice environment for tracking... but the console room to be at least adequate for both tracking and mixing (I'd like to do some independant mixing projects on the side).

6. She let me build a house didn't she? ;-) She's great... but I DO have small children (3 of them)... so daddy can't blast the house down.

7. Talk with him almost daily... great guy.

8. I'll ask, but that sub hasn't even been to the property yet, so I don't know if such a thing exists.

9. Building it on my own with a few other people... AFTER the house is complete.

10. Electrical - very, framing - nope... but one of the other helpers IS a general contractor, HVAC - nope... but same here... have a friend who does heating and cooling industrial installation for a living.

Velvet
 
Rick,

Yes... I can use the space... its approx 10x12ft, and is at the other end of the slanted doorway from the other room...

(they connect)

Same scenario with that room, EXCEPT two of the walls would be stud framed and the other two are cement. Same ceiling height etc.

I will scan the plans tonight if that helps.

Velvet
 
It really not too bad considering its at your house right? Its all about compromises. I added some dimensions so you have an relative idea of the romm sizes. No orchestras allowed :p

It a rough start, Im sure it will evolve like many others.

SoMm
 
Oh, here is mine. Its a little more square but Im going to use come Ethan Winer traps in conjunction to other treatment. Its all framed and Im doing wiring and insulation, no double walls because of not needing them, Im already inside a 2 by 6 fully insulated area with mdf and drywall. Spot treatments mostly.
Lots of compomises to me had to made.


SoMm
 
Son...

Thanks... I'll take a look at those sizes and see what happens. One thing I do notice is that there isn't really room for a producer's desk with my rack gear in it... the producer's desk isn't as big of deal, but I do need space for rack equipment.

I'll see if I can get scans or pictures of the actual plans tonight for the two spaces and see what happens.

Velvet
 
compromise priority and assumption list

Hello Velvet Elvis, thanks for the info. Ok, time for the hiarchy list:eek: This is what I call the priority breakdown. It also will determin a lot of things. At the moment, I kind of feel in the dark about some things. So heres 2 lists. Assumptions and prioritys.
I have already laid out at least 8 basic plans. However, each is assuming the following:
1. The answers you've already given will determine other things so these plans will change
2. The room you've shown is going to be built waterproof.(lots to check on that)
3. The other room is exposed to the outside on one or more walls.
4. HVAC is going to be designed into the studio design prior to the HVAC house system being installed. That means the overall design must be planned quickly.
Depending on how many spaces the studio design incorporates, true HVAC in a tightly sealed spaces requires both a supply and return duct to operate correctly. And in the space shown, the ceiling joist space is the only place to horizontally run ducting, correct? That is, unless we incorporate a plenum space into an adjacent space. At this point, you need to verify with your GC and or HVAC provider/installer, if the PLANNED unit is of sufficent size to handle these additional spaces(I am assuming these spaces were NOT planned as part of the HVAC package. This NEEDS to be addressed as soon as possible.
5. You are planning on obtaining permits.(Insurance may be void if you do not use the permit process.)

Put the following items in the correct order of prioritys and or add others.

Stereo Field symetry
Control Room symetry
Reflection Free Zone
View of Adjacent Space
Acoustics
Ergonomics
Near Field
Far Field
Rear Reflection
Control Room/ Other Room
Control Room/Vocal Booth/Other Room
Client/Producer comfort
Household HVAC connection
Seperate HVAC for control room/studio
Iso between adjacent and control room.
Upper floor isolation
Budget
Time
OK, I know, enough already!!!! But this is how I can best help you. I will post the 8 plans I have as soon as I dimension them.(probably tomorrow) these are for illustrative purposes, as to prioritys, as each one uses a different set of compromises.
Once you add the list above, then things will change. Especially once the HVCA questions are determined. I hope this helps so far. I try to design with as much info as
I can because I HATE getting in the middle of projects(construction) and run head on into a detail that could have been addressed in the planning process. It costs time and money. So..... hence all the questions. Planning is the key to good detailing. Let me know. BTW, my drawings are in Autocad, so I have to convert them, and at this time I have to go thru a convoluted process to post them so hang in there.:D
fitz:)
 
Rick...

You are correct that the ceiling is the only place (at this time) for duct work to go.

Here's my thoughts on priorities (I've seperated them into groups that I think go together, and then prioritized).


Stereo Field symetry (important)
Reflection Free Zone (Rear Reflection)
Control Room symetry

Acoustics (important)
Ergonomics
View of Adjacent Space

Near Field (important)
Far Field

Control Room/Vocal Booth/Other Room (important)
Control Room/ Other Room

Household HVAC connection (for budget reasons)
Seperate HVAC for control room/studio

Client/Producer comfort (very little importance)

Iso between adjacent and control room. (important)
Upper floor isolation (important)

Budget (I have more time than money)
Time

So as you can see... what I really desire is a room for ME to be the producer/client in... one that balances well (acoustically) and has a true sound.

I need it to be as isolated as possible both from the house and from the other rooms (so that I can track drums/guitars etc).

But yes... as always... I can't spend my life's savings doing it.

I'm sure I've made it as clear as mud now :)

Velvet
 
Howdy Velvet Elvis! OK, thats what I like. Most of the people I have asked questions just dropped the ball. Alright, I'm still interested in the other space. Can you supply another sketch showing the relationship, and any stairs etc. And as soon as you can, a scan of any HVAC plan? And BTW, I am the king of more time than money:D Thats why I build EVERYTHING myself save the electronics. Doors, jambs, racks, console etc. etc. Like I have said, I am no expert, but this is still a home studio, so nothing is set in stone. I have these drawings ready to post, and these are merely ILLUSTRATIVE of the options I perceive. BTW, all of the diffusers, clouds, slat absorbers will be worked out once the plan is in place. I decided not dimensioning everything, as that too is a waste of time at this point. I want you to know, I am only trying to help, and any time you want me to butt out, just say the word. However, I AM a detailer, and can supply you with pro drawings, but only if you want me to. You can communicate via email if you wish. Mine is cadesignr@rcsis.com. I am sure there will be lots of debate on what to do correctly, once a plan is posted. I can only work with what I know, as far as what info concerned is provided. So, until you see my SKETCHES, have a great week. If you want to, I can Email you the drawings as an attatchment, which if you load on a floppy, you can take to any graphics house that processes autocad files and plots blueprints, and have them plotted for a nominal fee. That way, you have full "E" size sheets to show your contractor, or BID for approval, once the final is determined. Mind you, the ones I am posting tonight are preliminary though. Although you can do that with them also, so you can modify or sketch right on them. Or you can get a free copy of an autocad reader on the net. I haven't looked for it though.
Once the completed drawings are done, you will see all the details, which to show here, would require HR.com to have a autocad reader, to zoom in on each thing you want to see. Anyway, stay in touch. That is, if you want me to continue. I have limited time, but I don't mind doing this, as its fun to me. Besides, I have a library of standard details that I usually include with a cover sheet. And anything new, just increases my library. Right now, I'm working on a diffuser design that is WAY COOL. Thats another story though.
fitz:)
 
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