New song - Opinions on all levels please

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Jagular

Jagular

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OK, this is probably the last you will hear from me for a little while and if all goes well the last time you hear anything from me recorded through my SBLive as I just bought a 1010lt :D (I hope I can get it to work now :D). As soon as I get the new card installed and working right I am going to start tracking on two songs and that will take me awhile.

This is another scratch guitar & vocal. I appreciate all your patience with these scratch tracks, but I have been learning from every post I make from the bottom up (that means for me, trying to get a decent guitar sound out of my crappy guitar and learning how to better capture my voice). This has all been very instructive and I think I’m hearing improvements.

This song is called “Where The River Flows”. I’m interested what you think on all levels, guitar sound, vocal sound, the song itself. As per usual, the guitar playing is less than stellar, but ok for a scratch track.

I also went back and remixed “Miss Her So” and got a better guitar sound (I think) although the mic placement one that one wasn’t the greatest, but it was an experiment so…what the hey. I also remixed Crawdad’s song “She’s Too Beautiful For Me” and got a much better guitar sound & overall mix IMHO, so if anyone wants to listen to those that is the evidence that you guys are making a positive impact on the sound of my music. I just want to say I really appreciate it. You guys got me all exciterated again :D:D

Anyway…here’s the page…thanks in advance :) http://www.nowhereradio.com/johnscott/singles
 
uh huh...

for starters, I hate to see threads where there are numerous views and no responses, that kills my senses. But...I like the content of the song a lot. It is quite mellow, but substance heavy. The only comment I would personally have (having an untrained mixing ear) would be that the reverb on the vocal may be a smidget much. I say this becuase it appears that there is a nice drawn out ambiance in the room that makes the lead vocal sit back a bit. Not a real problem per se, just a minor observation. All in all, I like the song a lot. BTw, are you performing the vocals? Nice sound and I see you are in TN. Great place for what you've got going on, but ofcourse you know that.

Brian
 
Nice performance generally, I like the guitar parts. Good song with a strong lyrical idea, particularly in the chorus. I am going to be honest here and try to be constructive with this post and I hope you take it that way. To me, the idea of a country tune about a young guy and his grandpa fishing and learning life lessons sounds a little cliche. I am no expert on country music so feel free to disregard this, but I think you might be better served to mix up the cliche a little by maybe changing the characters, or some of the incidental stuff about blue jeans and getting in the truck, etc. I think it detracts from the very beautiful and relevant imagery in the chorus. My advice would be to defy expectations.
 
flows well

G'mornin John,
This style of song doesn't really float my boat ;) but it's a good vehicle for your voice. And I like to listen to you sing.
I liked the lyrics.
There was some harshness on the vocal between 1-4Khz. I pulled down the 2Khz fader and it went away (along with some desirable frequencies, of course).
I thought that the guitar work fit the song well.
Another one that you may not want to over-produce? But,
what do I know?
Bill
 
I'm not into country music either, but hey I like this....mainly because it's so reserved and...eh...empty! If you had padded it up with keyboards I wouldn't have liked it, I'm afraid :)

So in my ears it sounds pretty finished already!

Good performance (can't hear anything wrong with the guitarplaying), good song, good singing (although your voice kinda 'closes' or 'narrows' when you're singing high, don't know how to explain it really. When you sing really loud, like at the end, it finally sounds good in my ears. It's almost like you're scared for those high notes. Nitpicking of course, but I promised myself to be honest with you people, not to be scared to hurt anyone...because only with honesty we can improve ourselves ;) )
 
Hey Jag,
....any song about fishing is All Good w/ me. Very nice song man. All of the parts are very appropriate and fitting. I guess i would have to disagree re: more stuff in this. I like it alot in all of its simplicity, but i dont think it would be hurt by some tasteful additions. ...a clean string arrangement for example. ...but it is real nice the way it is. Very nice work man:) g
 
go writing...Im into country a bit, and I can tell you this is as good as anything on the radio.....

at 3:23, its about 23 seconds too long;)
 
Good one. I think it runs in that non offensive middle of the road lane in country. Mix sounds balanced for this type of song. Are you going to keep it like it is or add to it? Good job.

Fishin' is the key to life

Joe

well I love her, but I love to fish
 
you know the 3 rules of country music. :) I liked it.
read yur mail.
 
Actually....if you replaced the guitar with a piano and sang it in a Styx sort of voice you'd have a rock ballad.
A well written song....singing was very good, an ocassional pitch issue but still very nice and a nice guitar part.
Good job.
 
Jagular--I'm gonna go out on a limb, since you said "any level" and tell you two things. First, you have an incredible idea going here. Second, the song isn't finished. (OK--I'm ducking the bait can you just threw at me--:D)

The heart and soul of this song is in the lines:

You'll never find out where life wants to go
If you don't follow where the river flows.

The overall strength is in the story telling nature of the song, making it sort of a parable. I'm just gonna say a few things which you can keep or ignore, but in my humble opinion, this is what would make this song killer. (and a hit)

First of all, it needs a big payoff--a big unexpected twist on the theme you start in the first verse. I was expecting a third verse.

The first verse is the setup for the core lines. The second verse needs to see that same philosophy from a different perspective. The last verse has to come from a totally new perspective--something we can't even see coming, but that wraps up the theme in a new and powerful way. In order to get all this in in 3 and 1/2 minutes, you might need to shorten the verses.

I know I sound like a huge critic talking out of my ass, but the truth is that there is something in this song that I'm really excited about. There is a truth here and I like the way you are going about telling it. Its just that the grand dads words have to resonate with deeper meaning later on. My first thought is of a guy who marries someone who has a handicap--like a blind girl or someone he knows is not going to live a long life. He chooses her over someone who is a sure and safe bet. He follows where the river flows instead of taking the straight and fast route to happiness. Then, in the last verse, after shes gone, he realizes that, despite the pain, he went where life's river led him rather than taking the easy way out--and he knows finally that his choice was the right one.

These kinds of songs are by far the hardest to write because its like putting a whole short story in a three minute song. I don't know if you are into doing co-writes, but I'm really into this one. Sorry for spewing out all these ideas, but its because you have something relly good started here and I couldn't help but respond, as a fellow songwriter. You can shoot me or PM me, OK?:D
 
Exellent Guitar pickin, exellent Vox, nice story. Scratch? This tune is ready for mastering, John. :)

CR ><>
 
Bmorris – Thanks for being first :D and thanks for the comment on the reverb. I struggle with getting it right. It sounds too much in the cans…not enough in my monitors (computer speakers :rolleyes: :D). Yes that is me singing and yes I moved down here to do this. Unfortunately I didn’t do squat for 3 years. But I’m off and running (albeit slowly) now.

Ashulman – I very much do appreciate the honesty. That’s why I’m here and that’s not bad advice. It may be a little clichéd but it is certainly Country and certainly from my experience (with some literary license ;)). That doesn’t mean I’m disregarding what you are saying. I like songs that surprise me. I’m just telling you from whence it came. Thanks for the listen, advice, compliment & especially honesty. :D

Bill Assumpcao – Thanks for the listen and thanks for the heads up on the harshness. This is the stuff I came here to learn. I will need to take a listen for that. To be honest, I may not notice it as I don’t have a very good listening environment, but I will study on that. I have some production in mind ;) :D. Glad you liked it overall.

Pedullist – Thanks man. And again, thanks for the honesty. I think I know what high part you are talking about (in the Bridge) and if I’m right, I restricted it kind of on purpose for a little different texture there. Doesn’t mean I’ll keep it in the final analysis. Thanks for pointing it out. It will make me listen to that part just that much more critically when I do the real tracking.

Guernica – I’m with ya :D… Growing up in the country, fishing was a big deal. It was a nice means of escape and solitude or excitement if you got that big old Northern Pike or Bass to surface strike the lure :D. I haven’t been fishing since I moved down to Nashville :(. My daughter is 3 now, I may have to introduce her to the wonderful world of fiishing :D. Plus I hear the bass fishing is pretty nice down this way :D. I do have some ideas for additional instrumentation. Obviously bass ;). Some keys, piano & strings, some lead guitar, and bg vocals. But you do need to be a little careful on songs like this. It can be easy to over do it. Thanks for the listen, compliment & ideas.

Gidge – Thanks I appreciate the compliment and the listen. I suppose I could speed it up 10% or so :D:D. 3:23 is short for me. When I first started I couldn’t keep it under 5 minutes :D. I swear the first publisher I ever played a song for fell asleep during one of my 6 minute, is it rock or is it country and what’s the point songs including guitar solo :D. (actually I still kind of like that song in principle it just needs an ovehall) :D

Smokepole – Thanks man. I will most likely add to it as painful as that gets for me. Once you get past strumming a guitar and singing I struggle. But I must keep pushing forward:D. “Well I’m gonna miss her when she’s gone” (I love that song) :D

Toki – Which 3 rules are those.? You mean like having a pickup truck, your Momma & Alcohol in the song somewhere?

“Well, I was drunk the day my Mom got outta prison.
And I went to pick her up in the rain.
But, before I could get to the station in my pickup truck
She got runned over by a damned old train.” – Steve Goodman

:D

PM answered – Thanks :D

Lt. Bob – Thanks for the listen & compliment. Ooooh…crossover possibilities, I like :D. Styx happens to be my favorite rock band. :cool: I got to see them in concert last summer (sans Dennis). They still rocked :D:D Maybe I’ll have to record my terrible piano playing of “Come Sail Away” and sing it for y’all to listen too and get a laugh out of. Roger on the out of pitch issues. I hear them too. Since I figure my voice is at about 80% (and increasing with exercise & more singing) right now with a tich of rust and this was a first take on a scratch track…I decided to live with it :D Thanks for noticing though (I actually really mean that) :). Sometimes ears get tired and you missed those kinds of things on final mixes. Maybe I need to get an autotuner ;) :D

Axe4tehbigguy :D (meant in all due reverence of course) – Thanks for the listen. I appreciate the compliment.
 
Well, sometimes a cliche is also the truth so if you are telling something from your heart you should probably stick to your guns. However, I do mirror Crawdad's advice that there is something special at the heart of the song that could be made great by adding a little mystery or a dash of melodrama, something to shake people up and to make the chorus a payoff. That's my parting shot and I will not meddle any further.
 
crawdad said:
Jagular--I'm gonna go out on a limb, since you said "any level" and tell you two things. First, you have an incredible idea going here. Second, the song isn't finished. (OK--I'm ducking the bait can you just threw at me--:D)

The heart and soul of this song is in the lines:

You'll never find out where life wants to go
If you don't follow where the river flows.

The overall strength is in the story telling nature of the song, making it sort of a parable. I'm just gonna say a few things which you can keep or ignore, but in my humble opinion, this is what would make this song killer. (and a hit)

First of all, it needs a big payoff--a big unexpected twist on the theme you start in the first verse. I was expecting a third verse.

The first verse is the setup for the core lines. The second verse needs to see that same philosophy from a different perspective. The last verse has to come from a totally new perspective--something we can't even see coming, but that wraps up the theme in a new and powerful way. In order to get all this in in 3 and 1/2 minutes, you might need to shorten the verses.

I know I sound like a huge critic talking out of my ass, but the truth is that there is something in this song that I'm really excited about. There is a truth here and I like the way you are going about telling it. Its just that the grand dads words have to resonate with deeper meaning later on. My first thought is of a guy who marries someone who has a handicap--like a blind girl or someone he knows is not going to live a long life. He chooses her over someone who is a sure and safe bet. He follows where the river flows instead of taking the straight and fast route to happiness. Then, in the last verse, after shes gone, he realizes that, despite the pain, he went where life's river led him rather than taking the easy way out--and he knows finally that his choice was the right one.

These kinds of songs are by far the hardest to write because its like putting a whole short story in a three minute song. I don't know if you are into doing co-writes, but I'm really into this one. Sorry for spewing out all these ideas, but its because you have something relly good started here and I couldn't help but respond, as a fellow songwriter. You can shoot me or PM me, OK?:D
Click to expand...

Jagular picks up the shiners…puts them down…and thinks, “no, they cost too much” & then reaches for the nightcrawlers…thinks, “hmmm….$1.50 per dozen”…ZZZZZING…;) :D.

Just kidding. This post needed it’s own response since there was so much effort put into it. This post is much appreciated, indeed. You got me all exciterated because I feel that you are one of manyl songwriters here that is several rungs up the ladder from me in writing skills. That, and the fact that I identify very closely with the style of music I hear from you just makes it all the more exciting. I’m just really kind of getting going at this thing (writing) seriously and learning. I still feel like I have a lot to learn and I will. ;)

Now that you mention it…I agree on the payoff thing. I’ve had that critique before on other songs (shows how well I listen ;):D). I tend to leave feelings hanging in songs as something to think about (chalk that up to my rock & roll angsty days I guess :D), but typically, folks in general (especially in Country music) like to hear a resolution and usually a positive one. Very solid critiquing there Crawdad :) This is the exact kind of thing that will help me grow as a songwriter.

I haven’t ever co-written before…maybe it’s time.

Thanks again for taking the time. Expect a PM from me soon :)
 
ashulman said:
Well, sometimes a cliche is also the truth so if you are telling something from your heart you should probably stick to your guns. However, I do mirror Crawdad's advice that there is something special at the heart of the song that could be made great by adding a little mystery or a dash of melodrama, something to shake people up and to make the chorus a payoff. That's my parting shot and I will not meddle any further.
Click to expand...

No really...thanks for meddling. I didn't mean to sound like I was blowing your comments off. Just 'splainin where the lyrics came from. Meddle as much as you want :D.

"If it weren't for those meddling kids" - from the end of any Scooby Doo episode :D.
 
John, Excellent songwriting my friend.
Yeah, I can write 10 minute songs which get a story idea across but the 3 minute crunch is a real problem. Actually in 3 minutes you cant tell a story but you can stir an emotional thought if the listener is open to it and I believe youve done that here once again. :) :) ;)

It is , possible to get a song which is very long and tells a great story, as in alices restaurant, which gets a place in the history of modern music, but that is once the golden door is already opened.


As far as the song draft, I think it might benefit use a steel guitar and/or a fiddle/strings in there for this one.

You know Theres a bunch of breathing coming through on the vocals, which to my ear sound just a bit dry. Maybe a chorus harmony would be nice as well.

Guitar tone: did you sqeeze it? it sounds a tad overcompressed to me as I dont hear the full dynamics and beauty of the fingerpickin coming through. Bravo,very nice finger playing BUT that acoustic crispness is missing during the strummed parts.

Im eager to hear what you do with this, youve got another potential $$$ song here, and you are exceptionally able to do the performance yourself! Thanks for the opportunity to preview it.

Peace
Bill
 
Yeah i got goose bumps:D thats when i know shits good, goose bumps...big fuckers too haha. This is going to be a great product when you're finished. Love the lyrics..
 
good sound, strong melody.. I think the minimal approach works well here.. some minor vocal things, but you said it was a scratch.. this melody is very effective on me.. good tune..
 
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