New room

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Jayme

Jayme

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Hello again!
Here is a picture of the space that I want to build my studio in, But.... I want to be able to record drums in it so it will need a booth! I also need to be able to record vocals and guitar 'n' stuff so I would prefer it if the room did have a booth. I was just wondering if anyone could tell me how big the booth needs to be for drums and if it will need special treatment? I'm just trying to gather ideas together to see what the best solution is, so if anyone would like to have a play around with the plans please do! I need a recording booth (big enough for drum recording if possible) and a control room. Each square on the paper is 20 centimetres and the wall with the red lines going through it is a stone wall that can be removed if needed! There's only one thing, the door (the only access to the room) has got to go on the wall with the blue line next to it! I would be very grateful for any ideas :D
 

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Ok Jamie, here is a scaled layout of the EXISTING space, converted from CM to inches. As you can see, you are VERY limited in space. Add isolation assemblies to the existing floor space and you will have less. However, in order to give you optional solutions, we will need much more information.
Location and type of existing room, and adjacent egress room(is this a basement first floor or second floor space, and what is the room that the door connects to? Any room above or below?)
Other rooms adjacent to studio walls
Existing wall, ceiling and floor materials.
Height of rooms.
Stone wall material(actual stone or synthetic and how is connected at floor, ceiling and walls.
How do you propose to enter the larger room. I see NO door. :confused:
What is your budget.
Do you rent or own this space.(Determines permenant or temporary construction solutions)
Any building skills/tools/materials?
Location
Recording goals(fun?demo?Final mixes?
Isolation goals(full containment/partial containment)
Environmental noise(cars, trucks, aircraft, guns, foot traffic/adjacent voices or radios/tv etc) and how loud is it(subjective)
Any objectionable neighbors or occupants in your building? Why?
Distance to next building and are there occupants who will be bothered?

Understand this right off the bat. Drums are the most difficult source to isolate even under the best circumstances and budget. Solutions are difficult to build, are expensive, and require skilled and cognizant craftsmanship, a total understanding of the methods required to achieve the solution, and maybe some types of hardware/materials not available to you. So tell us EVERYTHING YOU CAN, ok? Then I will try to help you.
fitZ :)
 

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Here is an example of the type of construction it will take to isolate drums. This is a drawing of an INTERIOR LEAF, that is totally seperated from the existing structure. It takes up at least 6" at each wall, and ceiling, not to mention either a floating floor or a isolated platform. If your conditions demand extreme containment levels, then a room within a room type solution is the only alternative, and is EXTREMELY expensive and requires certain conditions to exist prior to construction. Also will possibly require removal of existing interior leaf, and beefing up of extererior leaf from the outside or inside, depending on what is existing. This is why it is extremely difficult to offer solutions with NO information.
fitZ
 

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O.k, The room is the ceiling height is 2.34m (92 1/2 inches), the room is near a road (country lane, not busy) It's underneath my bedroom, all the walls, outside and in, are stone (it's an old Spanish house (yes, you've guessed it, I live in Spain!!). The door to the room isn't in yet but it can go anywhere on the wall that has the blue line next to it, on the other side of the wall with the blue line is a hall way, entering where the door would be (anywhere on the blue line).. the right hand wall is an outside wall which is were our courtyard is (either side of the partition wall with the red lines on it), the left hand wall (again, both sides of the partition wall with the red lines on) is another bedroom (but I will be only working in the day) and the far wall (parallel to the wall with the blue line) is the road wall. It's quite far away from our neighbours. I want to be able to do professional recordings (what I mean is I want to be able to charge people and the recordings to sound as best as they can with what I've got (or will hopefully have)). I am a builder and I can (brick lay, render, plaster, tile lay, screed, fit ceilings, windows, I can plum bathrooms.... er fit electric, three way lighting, you name it! (sorry, I'm making myself sound like the know it all bastard that can do everything but I don't mean to come off that way, my hole family are builders, but I want to do music (compose, record,.. e.t.c) Anyway.... money.. mmm money money money..... mmmmm... at the moment, not much (300 euros) hopefully I will be able to gather together 1000 I the next few months but I'll just have to go at it bit by bit!! Thank you so much for helping, I hope this information isn't too confusing but useful for you! :D
 
My two cents; use the larger space for the control room and the smaller for the booth. In my experience the extra elbow room will be appriciated in the control room (where YOU will be spending the most time). In an overall space that's this small, there's no acoustic advantage of the larger space over the smaller one.
 
Hello Jamye, Spain huh? Cool. Your english is very good english. Thankyou. Makes it easier to understand. Ok, lets start with isolation. What are your goals. Complete containment? Partial? None? Here is the deal.
As far as isolation from the household and outside world is concerned, have you any idea of how the existing conditions contribute to sound transmission loss? In other words, have you played a set of drums or other instruments in there already? If not, I would suggest doing so. Have someone play, and then walk throughout the house, and around the perimeter. This will give SOME idea of the level that is transmitting. Only YOU can tell if the existing barriers are suffiecient or not, where, and to what degree. Soundproofing is in the ear of the beholder. Your interpretation may NOT be the same as another occupant, or neighbor, but only you can determine what you hear. Once you can tell us what you are hearing, and where, and if it needs more isolation, this will give US, a little insight to what it will take to meet your isolation goal. Does that make sense?
And IF it does need to be modified to increase the STL(sound transmission loss) then we need to know everything we can to help you. So, communication is the name of the game here. What do you want to do? Isolate, Isolate and acoustically treat, or just treat the rooms? That is the question. In that regard, read the following if you need isolation. Treatment is a whole 'nother ball game, but if your buiilding new iso construction, it has a bearing on the acoustics also.

Ok, I need to clear up some things. First, I will post another picture of the plan with all walls labeled . You have confused me with RIGHT and LEFT descriptions, as you said the BLUE wall is a partition wall to a hallway. IT is on the RIGHT of my screen :confused: You said the RIGHT wall is an exterior wall adjacent to a courtyard. See....hence the labling. It is EXTREMELY important to identify these walls, their COMPLETE composition and connections at all four intersections of each room. That is NOT ALL. You really need to understand the solutions demand comprehensive knowledge of existing conditions and materials. Also, a list of materials that are available to you there. Ok, here are some other things I need to know.
Existing floor......what is it, and how does it connect to the foundation.
Are the floors in each of these rooms one continuous floor? IF not, how are they connected. Usually, contemporary construction in the US, would require a foundation footing under each of the stone walls. IF, these stone walls had their own footings, they would USUALLY be integeral with a continous slab. However, since this is an OLD spanish construction, there is no way for me to know the conditions. Furthermore, since the partition wall is also stone, that tells me something. Are any part of this structure an ADD ON, or has it been remodled? I need to know everything, as the footings and floor connections will determine many things.
As I said before, there MUST be an EXISTING door into these rooms, but you
DON"T show it. :confused: This is another MUST KNOW! I can't read your mind, so tell me EVERYTHING! IF, there is an existing door penetration WITHIN a stone wall, and you plan on covering it, or filling in the opening, that creates a different scenario than a complete stone wall. Understand? Also, you show a door in the partition wall. This is existing, no? Tell me the type of doors, frames, and trim that exist also.
Ceiling......tell me everything. I mean, THIS IS THE UPPER FLOOR.I want to know WHAT is supporting this ceiling(upper floor), what type of timbers, what size, how they connect to the walls, the direction of floor joists or, and which of these walls are SUPPORT walls. Even the one adjacent to the hall way may support the upper floor. Any HVAC penetrations in the ceiling? What is the ceiling material? Any insulation in the joist cavities? IF so what is it. Any electrical penetrations, like for lighting boxes or anything? We need to know EVERYTHING. You wouldn't withhold info from a doctor, right? Same here.
Walls. What type of stone. What is the EXTERIOR finish, and what is the INTERIOR finish on ALL of them. Any pipes, heaters, electrical, or anything that we should know. And do these stones connect to more than one wall at the intersections, like brick does? This makes a difference. The partition wall may only be stone up to a framing mechanism, or continue up through the second floor. Who knows. Since this is a two story structure, and the walls are stone, how do the second floor joists tie into to the EXTERIOR walls? What is it? Do the joists PENETRATE the stone wall? Any windows? We NEED to know this stuff in order to pre-empt any structural construction that may demand conditions for structural enforcement. Such as the joists. You can NOT add 2 layers of drywall to a 2x6 joist with a span that would cause it to deflect to the point of collapse. Understand? Even old connections could be rotted, or anything. Understand this. There are only TWO ways to prevent sound transmission. MASS, and decoupling. Mass translates into weight. Decoupling translates into knowing what exists in order to connect correctly.
Also, what is your plan for HVAC, as soundproof translates to AIRPROOF. Heat buildup in small rooms is quick. People, equipment, etc, demand at least a ventilation system that both supplys and removes air, whether treated or not. Tell us your intent in this regard. You will be sorry if you don't address this issue from the outset, as it has many implications, such as ducting, grills, penetrations, etc. And, is there any existing HVAC in the rooms? What heats and or cools these areas?

As far as the space use is concerned, you don't have enough as it is to fully contain a band at one time. So, your recording methodology dictates multitracking one or two musicians at a time. That tells me the best approach to the first decision, is to use the large room as a control room. This places the entry through the booth, or "studio", not the control room. So, I agree with trackrat on this one. It makes sense. However, this makes for an EXTREMELY small space to record in. More like a vocal booth, as putting a set of drums in there after isolation construction is added, will undoubtably be very cramped for a drummer.


Ok, that should keep you busy. I'll be back.
 

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