NEW ONE HERE !!! I REALLY need a suggest about AMP MIKING...

  • Thread starter Thread starter DaveHawk
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DaveHawk

New member
Hello to everyone!

I'm Dave, (spam mode on) guitarist and main composer from an italian Hard Rock Band named THE Project (spam mode off).

In less than a month, I have to record all the guitars for our debut CD.
I have one week to complete the work, and a couple of hour to place a mic (or more) in front of a cab and get an AMAZING sound.

I have these gears:

1 Gibson Les Paul Custom (S.D.Pearly Gates neck, S.D. Custom Bridge)
1 Gibson Les Paul Standard Custom Shop (Both P.U. are S.D. Alnico II)
1 Fender Stratocaster Standard (with S.D. Hot Rails on Bridge)
1 Marshall JCM 800 2210
1 Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier
1 4x12 Mesa Boogie Cab, with 4 Celestion V30 speakers.

1 Focusrite VoiceMaster Pro (1 input)
1 Presonus Fireface (not sure about the name, I mean an external firewire audio card with 8 inputs).

1 Shure SM57
1 Shure SM58
2 Shure KSM32
1 Rode NT2000
1 Sennheiser MD409
2 Sennheiser MD421

Thanx to Steven Slate samples (in addiction to real drums), we now have a Drum with an incredible large sound...something about the last Green Day studio work "21th Century Breakdown".

I'm interested in obtain a HUGE guitar sound, that can compete with these great sounding drums !!!

I'm here to ask you WHICH is the best (In your opinion) sounding "combination" of all these gears to obtain my goal.

(For example, I really like Billy Joel guitar tone and, OF COURSE, Slash!)

I'd start with the Std. L.P. with Mesa on the left, and Custom with JCM on the right, in order to have different sound...

But HOW to mic the cab???

I would like to use at least 2 mics...maybe 3...which are your suggests???
I mean not only the mics position, but which mic should I use!

About the Pre...I know that I don't have the best sounding preamps in the world, but please give me an idea on which preamp should I use for which mic... (example: SM57 goes in Focusrite, and MD421 goes in Presonus)

Many many thanx in advance, and excuse me for my bad english, I hope you understand exactly what I need!

Bye,

Dave
 
You're just going to have to do some searching on these forums for suggestions. There is WAY too much information to provide to you. You're asking about a book's worth of information here.

Search around, start finding some tips and suggestions that have already been made (dozens of times, I promise, if you search the Guitars and Bass forum), and then come back with any more specific questions that you might have.
 
The only way I think you'll get the answers is to get down and start experimenting with your mic placements/combinations. The search engine on this forum seems to work really well and there is a wealth of great info here posted by some pretty switched-on people.
Doing it the hard way is the only thing you can do (IMO). Personally I think micing is an art. It's also pretty subjective. Get in there are start experimenting. It's pretty cool shit when you get stuck into it.
 
"...I really like Billy Joel guitar tone..." hmm, 1st get a grand piano...
Seriouly though tehre are some great things to read via the search mode. IF you're using a pro studio with engineer they ought to be able to help you set up quickly for their given environment.
 
I allways get a big guitar sound by using 2 mics...an SM57 of axis of the speaker...and an LDC 5' away and panned wide.
 
Before all this, take the cabinet and listen closely to what speaker has the best sound.


Recently got nice results micing with a sm57 right on the grill, halfway between centre and edge of the speaker, and a large condenser microphone 30-40cm away..
first amp and guitar panned to right, second amp and guitar panned to left.
I panned the sm57 fully left or right, and the condenser some 58% then mixed levels to taste.

Experiment with the sm57 close to the speaker, in center, middle and edge of cone. Straight to the speaker and tilted.
Then take a different type of a mic, and experiment how it sounds from a distance from the speaker... 20cm-80cm.. Listen the far-mic by itself AND with the near-mic to avoid phase issues.

..getting you started, but as they said, there's a plethora of info in these discussions. And in Google too.
 
Firest: I'm really thankful to everyone for joining my thread!

Second: I checked google and found (too) MANY useful infos about what I was looking for...
But I'm here to have a suggest in HOW to choose between gears that I have yet.

It's a common thing to find someone that say: "Use a Ribbon mic, for example a Royer 121 (or something like that), and it will be ok"...but it's REALLY expensive for me...

My goal is to have the best guitar sound that I can with MY gears...and the thread is about this...

For example: "use SM57 and MD409 in the middle of the v30, and the KSM32 on a third cone", or "DON'T put SM57 thru Focusrite! It' s horrible!"...or something like this...i have a very short time to test mic positions and take decisions...so I'd like to be prepared.

Sure I'll do some test...but I would like not wastin' time trying unuseful things (something that maybe is "wrong" in absolute).
 
Another techique is to (Step 1) record the guitar part with the Marshall, then record the same thing with the boogie. (Step 2) You could repeat step 1 giving you 4 tracks of the same guitar piece and pan the two amps one left one right. The trick is going to be nailing it each time.

But just recording one track for a "wall of sound" isn't going to cut it. But then again you mentioned Billy Joel and Slash.
 
gcapel said:
Another techique is to (Step 1) record the guitar part with the Marshall, then record the same thing with the boogie. (Step 2) You could repeat step 1 giving you 4 tracks of the same guitar piece and pan the two amps one left one right. The trick is going to be nailing it each time.

But just recording one track for a "wall of sound" isn't going to cut it. But then again you mentioned Billy Joel and Slash.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I will do parts for TWO guitarists !!!

So it means that I will have two different guitar parts in every song...I can't double the guitars.

I'm thinking to buy a split and do guitar parts with 2 amps together...and then blend the result...could this be an idea ???
 
there's no reason you can't double guitar parts for both guitarists. If they're playing the exact same things, then just record 1 take of each guitarists and pan them wide in the stereo field.

If they're playing different things, double-track the rhythm guitarist and pan the takes wide. then use panning in the stereo field to find a place for the other guitarist's parts.

The important thing in getting a large sound with rhythm guitars is double-tracking (not copying and pasting the same take, but re-recording separate takes) and panning them relatively wide in the stereo field. You can hard-pan them L and R, but that gets a little tiresome to the listener. 80% L and R is good, even 60% or 70% will get the point across.

For 2 guitarists, I'm not sure what to suggest. If they're both playing rhythm parts, you're still going to want to double-track them both. Then pan them wide, but bias one guitar towards the left and one towards the right. What I mean by "bias" is maybe pan guitar 1's doubled tracks 100% L and 50% R, then pan guitar 2's doubled tracks 100% R and 50% L. Something along those lines. This is just pure conjecture on my part, but the one thing I'm sure of is that double tracking rhythm guitars will give you the "big, fat, huge" sound you're after. How you go about doing it for 2 different guitarists is up to you. Experimentation is the key.

You'll find out in short order that you simply can't rush the tracking process. There are too many variables to account for, and only experimenting in your own space with your own equipment will yield any answers for you. Whatever the reason is for your short amount of time, you're going to have to talk to whomever is rushing you and explain that you just can't rush this process. it's time consuming, especially for the novice or beginner, and especially for a home-recordist. Then when you get a novice home-recordist, look out! It's simply going to take time to get an acceptable product.

There aren't going to be any hard rules about "don't use this mic with that preamp". The Sennheiser MD421 is a highly regarded (and highly coveted) mic for guitar cabinets. The SM57 is an industry standard for guitar cabinets. Simply sticking either one of those mics in front of a cranked JCM 800 or Triple Rectifier is going to yield great sounding results.

You've got world-reknowned mics and world-reknowned amplifiers. As long as your guitarists can play worth a damn and they are flexable when it comes to adjusting their usual live sound to accomodate the recording process (more mids than you're used to, and less distortion than you're used to), then you really can't go wrong. You'd have to TRY to fuck up recording guitars with that equipment.

Take a blind stab at mic placement, mic choice, guitar choice, amp choice, and amp settings. Hit record and listen to the results. If something in particular strikes you as unpleasant, try to describe it in words and post it here.

Here are some search results to get you started reading:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/search.php?searchid=1731761

There is a LOT of good info in those posts. Get to reading, get to experimenting, and spend less time waiting for strangers on the internet to do it for you! :D
 
If you've got one week to both learn to record guitars and then subsequently record all the guitars I'd suggest biting the bullet and renting 1-2 days of studio time to just bust in at 9am and have an actual engineer record the shit for you. Doing everything yourself isn't always the right answer.
 
i use this:

pdi09-big.jpg







http://www.palmergear.com/pdi09.shtml


works like a charm.

if you want to hear it in action, i'll post a clip...
 
i don't know about any of all that, but my clips sound really good.
it's a nice piece of machine, a/b'd against my miced clips, it was just as good, tho it misses the room sound.....
which doesn't matter at all, if you've got a crappy room, or you're close micing.

i tend to trust my own personal experience.
 
MANY THANX TO ALL !!!

I've read every line you all posted, and thanx to your links, I just discovered a world!

I have to say that this is NOT my first attempt in recording guitars.

I obtained good results in the recent past, but now I want the REAL thing.

I'll go with two amps, JCM 800 and Jubilee for one guitar, blended together (I hear something like this in the last two Green Day works, I think)...and with the triple rectifier on the other side, maybe alone, maybe with the JCM 800 blended.

I' don't use too much distortion...that's for sure...no problem for this.

More mids in recording???

My problem with my last recording was exactly the opposite!
I had too much mids...JCM800 + LP Custom+SM 57= too much mids to my ears!


I don't have an amazing-sounding room (but not so bad...)

I think that I will use only close-micing

I think that it will be like this:
JCM800 + Jubilee with Marshall Cab: MD409 + KSM32
Mesa Boogie (maybe + JCM800) + Mesa Cab: SM57 + KSM32

What do you think???

FOR GONZO:

You posted a link to a D.I. (D.I. ONLY, for what I've seen)

I'm looking for a splitter...I think this one could do the work:
Lehle Dual Sgos http://www.lehle.com/frameset.php?country=it&lang=en

Is it correct??

Thanx again.
 
Here's a link to my old work...



Both guitars thru JCM800, mics SM57 (95%) & Rode NT1 (5%)

Left guitar: LP Standard
Right guitar: LP Custom

The Drums are MIDI, but with REAL charlie & Ride...

Now the drums are WAY better...and HUGE.
 
davehawk-
the lehle stuff is really good.

the palmer PDI-09, is just a cab sim/direct box, it's the same circuit that is used in the devices that eddie van halen, alex lifeson, keith richards, joe satriani, many others, use....

but it has no load capabilities.
that's why i have the weber mass attenuator.

my clips using the palmer:
"the Travel Song:
http://tiny.cc/2fefT


"The Shaman Song"
http://tiny.cc/3Zh5D



"Road to Tabriz"
http://tinyurl.com/ytpga6



at myspace, the song "Headin' for the Weeds"
http://www.myspace.com/batsbrew
 
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