New Motif ES8 for $1500.00??

tedluk

New member
I was searching E-bay for used Motifs and happened upon an auction for a Motif HERE

I saw their link to their web site and checked them out. They don't have a lot of keyboards, only workstations from the big 3, but their prices seem ridiculously low.

Has anyone done business with these people? They have zero feedback and appear to have just started selling on e-bay. Their web site looked decent and they show buyer feedback with e-mail addies.

HERE is their web site.

Seems too good to be true which means it probably is a scam of some kind.

Ted
 

Echelon

Lights Fish on Fire.
well, let's see. On the front page they spelled Roland wrong, and they've stolen their images from ZZounds. Yeah, it looks really sketchy. The prices are sketchy too, 1500 for a new ES8 is ridiculous.
 

tedluk

New member
They'll ship to the US for $31.00!

They're based in Greece. Their bank is Banco Popular in Spain.

I sent them a couple of e-mails yesterday. They claim all merchandise is brand new with "international" warranty.

They accept payment via bank transfer and have given me their account information. They use an escrow company, but it's based out of Spain as well and I haven't heard of them. I suppose, if the escrow company is legitimate, that might allay some of my doubts.

I asked them how their prices can be so low compared to the going prices here but they didn't answer that part of my e-mail.

I'd still like to know if anyone has purchased from them. So far, I'm pretty leary. Seems too good to be true.

I'll watch that auction and see how it turns out.

Ted
 

warble

New member
Personally, I wouldn't proceed with them. There have been quite a few suspicious auctions on eBay for the Yamaha MOTIF's.

I recently emailed regarding a similar auction about a week ago. They emailed back, almost instantly, offering for me to "Buy It Now" for a certain price. So, out of curiosity, I responded asking further questions. They set a price and stated that if I purchased, I would be protected by eBays protection. They then sent me an email to proceed with the purchase. While it looked like an official eBay email, it certainly was not. I checked the headers noticing that the emails originated from an account at Everyone.net (this company offers email accounts). I contacted eBay and reported the fraudulent email, and never heard from the seller again.

This may not be exactly the same case, but I would caution you to proceed with the auction your interested in. The MOTIF ES8's are selling for about $2800-3000 everywhere. Auctions for half-priced, brand new ones would make me wonder. That may be just me, but I think others would be a little suspicious as well. I will say that having their company Web site available is a little more comforting though, but payment only through wire transfer stomps on that feeling for me. With credit card payments, you'd have some level of protection or even going through eBay with their protection, but I'm not sure about the wire transfer thing.

I did look at the escrow company Website - looks legit, but who knows. It didn't give me a comfortable feeling. I also noticed the "Secure Site - Click to Verify" on the main Dream Electronics site. They have a Verisign Seal, but when you click on the link above the seal, it takes you to check-transaction.com, which happens to be their "escrow" company. Also noted the Cnet Certified Merchant logo - no link. I would check Cnet to see if they are actually a "certified merchant".

It's up to you, but you already know the old cliché "If it's too good to be true....."

Good Luck
 
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:D Yo Tedluk:

Don't become an UNLUCKY-TED!

Whenever a deal comes from that far away, I'd be suspicious. You might even post Yamaha to check on the authenticity of this company?

I just got a Motif ES6 and the sounds are wonderful. Best price I got was from Full Compass. I like doing business with a company which will accept returns within a reasonable amount of time. Of course, I would lose the shipping costs but it's better than getting a damaged board and not having proximity of the USA on your side.

You can check the major US vendors but I'll bet your best price will come from Full Compass. {no, I don't work there.} Call all the 800 numbers and ask.

The manual for the ES is very techie--not organized at all. But, you should be able to do the sounds with no trouble. The sequencer depends on your experience with a sequencer. I use the 2816 to record so I haven't tackled the learning curve, YET, of the on-board sequencer.

I'd stick with the USA vendors and always ask about the return policy before you buy any item, even the non-expensive ones.

Green Hornet :eek: :eek: :rolleyes: :cool: :D
 

tedluk

New member
Well, of course I'm suspicious. That's why I started the thread in the first place. I wanted to see if anyone has had any experience with the vendor.

The return policy question is valid, but I already know about the Motif (I have the rack version and like the sounds, but I've really been impressed with the ES series demoing them in-store). The only issue would be service. If the warranty is valid, then service wouldn't be a problem either.

I might try contacting Yamaha directly.

Definitely not sending any money unless I can verify their authenticity.

Ted
 

hixmix

Halibut, North Dakota
I don't see how the shipping from Greece could only be $31.00. Are they shipping it in the hold of a sardine boat? :)

There also might be extraordinary import-export taxes that could increase the cost considerably. I once shipped a manuscript from Los Angeles to London via Fed-Ex. It only weighed about a pound and a half and the cost was was about twenty five dollars for like five day shipping. About amonth later I got another bill from fed-ex for a surcharge of $50.00 for some kind of tax imposed by the british government!

Also, aren't european electronics usually wired for 220 volts?

I can't even imagine the nightmare of trying to return a faulty product to Greece and ever hope to see my money again from an escrow company in Spain. Actually, it would probably be quite the comedy.
 

fldrummer

New member
The only way would even think about doing that is if I could talk to a real person. It still sounds way to good to be true.
 

tedluk

New member
Now the auction has been pulled too. Looks like it was a scam.

Oh well. I didn't think it was possible.

Ted
 

warble

New member
Some of the scammers goto a lot of work for their "craft". In this case, it looked like both the electronics store and escrow company sites were bogus.

Glad you didn't caught up in all that crap.
 

Feefer

New member
Hi Ted and all,

Most certainly a scam: gotta be careful on eBay, as I've heard of people getting taken for a ride.

FWIW, I've got a mint condition Motif ES-8 I'm looking to get rid of (this unit is really low-use, as I have more gear than time these days, and don't see that situation changing anytime soon....).

The Mo' ES-8 is loaded with 1GB RAM, and includes not only the manuals and bundled software, but all (4) KeyFax DVD's on the Motif, and a compatible USB CD-R/W for loading sounds into RAM from sample CD-ROMs. That's $500 in add-ons, alone.

In a word, the unit's tricked-out, turn-key, and ready to roll. :)

I'm asking $2,500 for the bundle.

If anyone's interested, send a PM or post in this thread. I'm an hour North of L.A., but often travel in L.A./San Diego on weekends (i.e. drive thru Inland Empire), and can arrange delivery for a serious buyer on a weekend.

Chris
 

J_I

New member
Ebay and yamaha motif - A premonition based on my recent experience

Hi folks,

Ebay is a place that most of us buy pretty good stuff sometimes at a very cheap price. This is my first post here and this is to warn you that you may be lured into fraudulent transactions, as I was, in spite of all the things seemingly working right.

I had been planning to buy a Yamaha MOTIF ES 6. The normal price over the net ranges anywhere from $1400 to $2000. Being a long term investment that is, I wanted only a factory sealed brand new ietm. I found an auction for brand new motif for a price of $1400 and decided to bid on it. I won the auction on Friday 6:30 PM and got an invoice from the seller (patandbigmike). His feedback quotient was 100 % and I was convinced this seller was worthy of trusting. He preferred payment by money order and since it was weekend already I decided to sleep over it till Monday.

On Monday I purchased Western Union money orders for $1400 (3 money orders 500, 500 and 400). I went to the University of South Carolina post office at Russell house and sent it through regular USPS mail around 4 pm - about the time that it closes and returned to my office.

At 6:30 pm I get a mail from ebay saying that the original seller's id had been compromised and that the item has been removed from ebay. A third party was sending mails impersonating the original seller and that I must not pay for the item. I was dumbstruck since I had sent my payment only a couple of hours back! Unlike other forms of paper payment, money orders can be cashed instantly. Hence if the felon receives the money order he may just encash it and disappear. In total unrest, I called various personnel.

(1) Western union- This is the company that I bought money orders of. They told me that I will have to shell out $12 per MO to stop or refund payment. It would also take 30 days for them to process the request in which meanwhile if the MOs are cashed I will not be eligible for refund! But I had hardly three days to recover my money ! Absolutely useless customer service at Western Union - Please note it.

(2) Ebay - I sent a mail to ebay asking how would they allow a transaction to remain in their website for three full days if it were fraudulent ? The very fact that the auction was in their web site for three days after the bidding was over implied to a customer like me that it is approved by Ebay. Please note that ebay does NOT have a contact phone number. You have to deal entirely with either their automated responses or wait until some personnel writes to you with all the "blah blah" which hardly helps your cause. Ebay responded with typically redundant diplomatic and unhelpful mails and I am still contemplating legal action against their lackadaisical, unresponsive and irresponsible behavior.

(3) Police - They were helpful only to the extent that they told me this is not in their jurisdiction (both USC and County). Since USPS was involved, it was a federal problem and that only USPS could handle it.

That left me with the only hope - USPS. If this letter could be stopped from reaching the felon, and sent back to me I could later apply for a refund with Western Union. I reached USPS office in Assembly street early in the morning. Fortunately, the clerk there was extremely understanding. I had taken a copy of all the communications (emails) pertinent to the auction. She got in touch with the postmaster of the receiver's post office at St. Louis. She clearly explained the situation and he assured help.

I got in touch with my friend at St. louis to personally impress upon the postmaster there about the gravity of the situation and was assured that the staff were on high alert. They found my mail and sent me back safely. I heaved a sigh of relief once the mail reached my hands yesterday.

Lessons from this incident

1. Never buy anything worth more than a couple of hundred dollars over Ebay. And even for those transactions use credit card, personal check or paypal. Never use money orders.
2. In case of a problem, Ebay does not have a phone number for contact. Your transactions are going to be only through e-mails and they are slow. So, you cannot extract anything useful.
3. USPS has an option of recalling the mail given the circumstance is unusual and well explained. They have a form for this.
4. Cyber crimes cannot be dealt with police. They cannot prevent an imprending fraud from happening in spite of knowing it in advance.
5. Western Union money order are absolute rubbish. If you need to buy money orders use postal money orders. They have better service.
6. Finally USPS is definitely trustworthy and helpful. I called the personnel up and thanked them personally.

I wanted to share this so that those who buy at ebay may be more cautious in the future.

J_I
 
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