new monitors ... ns-10s

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TexRoadkill said:
Dude gimme a break.


I'm not kidding.
First of all, getting headaches is not good for you.
Secondly, why would anyone CHOOSE to get headaches, just for the sake of a mix? That's stupid. There ARE some things that are more important than a good mix - general well-being and health among them.
 
youre right, too many decimal places, I say 99.99% so out of 10,000 albums that you get to hear because they make it to some sort of marketplace, probably one was mixed primarily on something besides an NS-10...thats my gut feeling anyhow, but lately people have a LOT of choices, but certainly in the olden days a lot of albums that we all know and love were mixed primarily on NS-10's and I daresay that 99.99% is probably accurate. Now if were to say what percent of albums were recorded and mixed without using NS-10's at all anywhere in the process, the number drops WAY further
 
Pipeline: Do you mean primarily mixed on... or just used as a reference to check an almost finished mix?

I don’t know about 99%, but I guess I can see why you would say a good percentage of mixes were checked on these speakers.
Hooray for yamaha.



Y'know I wonder if yamaha makes any decent sounding speakers. Their home audio line sounds like ass.
 
Gunther said:
Y'know I wonder if yamaha makes any decent sounding speakers. Their home audio line sounds like ass.
Got news for ya -- the NS-10s ARE home-line.... when they first came out, they were a consumer line!
 
we should see if theres a way to find out, but like I say, I dont use my NS-10's anymore, but I would NEVER discount the magnitude of their contribution to everything we hear. And just to blatantly slam them is insane

Lately theyve been listing recording formats on billboard, I wonder if theres a speaker list anywhere
 
bleyrad said:
I'm not kidding.
First of all, getting headaches is not good for you.
Secondly, why would anyone CHOOSE to get headaches, just for the sake of a mix? That's stupid. There ARE some things that are more important than a good mix - general well-being and health among them.

Have you actually used NS10's? I have had them for over 10yrs and they have never given me a headache.
 
yes... do you perhaps have the modified versions? there's something like a 7.5db peak around 4000Hz without the mod.
 
No mods and no headaches. When I was a poor musician they were the only speakers I owned and I listened to everything through them at pretty high volumes in small rooms and never got a headache.

I can understand if somebody just doesn't like them but the idea that they are guaranteed to give you headaches or some type of ear damage is ridiculous.
 
What was the modification? Oh yeah… toilet paper placed over the tweeters. :rolleyes:
That should tell you something.


But if they work for Tex, then that’s great. To each their own.
 
toilet paper over the tweeters has NOTHING to do with the NS-10's frequency response, its a trick to force yourself to put a RIDICULOUS amount of treble in a mix, following the " brighter is better" school of thought
 
the mod i was referring to was something i saw on the 'net that apparently a lot of engineers have used. it basically involves placing some resistors in the NS10 electronics to tame out that 4K peak and smooth over the crossover point as well.
 
I suppose there are 2 ways of looking at recording music.

You can either go for the 'you are there' natural sound.

Or you can go for the hyped up, over compressed, attention getting sound.

One is nice to listen too, the other sells CDs.


I am part of the 'you are there' capture the performance and play it back faithfully school of thinking... so the NS10s and I are not compatible.
 
I actually dont think that MSP5's are that bad. Ya, the bass response isnt that great, but i have a pair, and they're not too shabby.
 
I've done this mod on my NS 10's and I'm pleased with the results. It's simple enough to make the new circuits switchable from the outside of the enclosure for A/B comparisons.
The caps should be rated for at least 50V. Make sure that they are non polarised. The values don't have to be exact. within 10% will be ok. The resistors should be rated for at least 5W, 10W would be better.

Schematic for NS 10 Mod
 
I think that any "monitor" with a frequency peak of 7.5dB cannot honestly be called a monitor even if it has been used for such with good success. IMO I think that a speaker with a frequency response in variation of +/- 3dB or more is just not good at all. Most home speakers have variations 2,3, and even 4 times worse than this.

I think this is why the ns-10 translates so well to home speakers for alot of todays music. They seem to match up pretty well. If you have a 7.5dB peak at 1500 hz on your monitor, you will mix for that to sound good. When that recording is played on a home system with a 1.5 khz peak, it will sound very much the same. I have heard alot of discussions about monitors and speakers and what thier differences are.

I do not think that home speakers are unflat because it makes them sound better, i think they are non-flat because it costs to much to flatten them out and most people won't tell a difference anyway. How many BAD shows have you had at a bar cause you were sick or the equipment was having problems and the people come up and say" That sounded awesome!!, your great, I love you guys". You wanna say... "man, you don't know what the hell you are talking about, that sounded like shit!" But you say "thanks alot" and go on.

This is what I think it is. (GOOD home speakers ARE flat Btw).
I know cause I have some +/- 2 dB. The difference between good home speakers and good monitors is this. Home speakers come with the frills. They are designed with nice finishes, and some you can have made custom to fit the woodwork in your house. They fit the decor of your house, or they have a grille that will make your wife happy. They may sit on shelves out of the way. They look as good as a speaker can look. Many home systems are not only speakers but the amp, preamp, cd player and everything you need for a stereo. (although high end systems are usually modular rack equipment which contain hand chosen components).

Monitors on the other hand should only be concerned with being accurate. The engineer shouldn't be concerned with how they look. ( if only to impress clients, but maybe you should do that with your work). If a mix on an accurate monitor sounds bad, it is probably a bad mix. Nothing more. Are studios really concerned if the cabinet is walnut, cherry, or birds eye maple? Not most I would think, at home I would definately say yes.

But since most people have the consumer stereo systems from walmart and k-mart or whoever. Mixes done on the ns-10's translate very well to them. Because they are basically the same.The ns-10 may be able to take a lot more dynamic material though before the mix has gone through compression.

Realistically, if every one had a hi-fi system at home, the ns-10 would have died long ago. I would also say this, almost every rock mix on the market will sound like crap on your hi-fi system. There have been a few I have heard that are not so bad though. And I have heard a few that are excellent. But as far as a standard home stereo is concerned... they will rock away. That is what the ns-10 gets ya. If you want easily marketed translation for the masses use the ns-10. If you want accuracy, truth, or quality use the speakers like I have or something comparative.

Here is how i see todays chain of events.

cheap mics...cheap equipment. cheap monitors...cheap mixes, cheap marketing...cheap consumers, cheap house speakers...cheap music. Cheap Shit from the begining to the end.

Does anyone REALLY care about music or do they just like to shake their ass and bob thier heads?

Sometimes it is hard to pay the bills though I understand. I paid 2800 for my speakers. I paid 60 dollars for my car. Yes I said 60 dollars. I saved her from the junk yard. It took me 2 weeks to fix her up but she looks good and I have been driving her for 4 years now with 247,000 miles. Get whats important to ya I guess. Scrimp on the rest.
 
i've never heard a home speaker system that seemed to have as big of a midrange bump as the NS10 does.


also, the primary difference between home theatre speakers and nearfield monitors is this: one is farfield, one is nearfield. that's pretty much it. there are other things you could say that each is "supposed" to be, but there ends up being so many exceptions in practice (like the NS10's being non-flat) that you can't really classify any more than that.
 
I think someone is under the assumption that NS-10's are new, that thread about it working well with *todays* mixes

VERY wrong...they arent ancient but theyve been with us in the M form since the late 70's or early 80's
 
jfreeman373 said:
Sometimes it is hard to pay the bills though I understand. I paid 2800 for my speakers. I paid 60 dollars for my car. Yes I said 60 dollars. I saved her from the junk yard. It took me 2 weeks to fix her up but she looks good and I have been driving her for 4 years now with 247,000 miles. Get whats important to ya I guess. Scrimp on the rest.

Pfew, I'm glad I'm not the only one spending more on my monitors than on my car :D :cool:


Herwig
 
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