New monitors are too forgiving

[DM1]

I have an odd problem: after years of creating good mixes with headphones and computer speakers, I upgraded to decent monitors a couple of months ago. Since the change, my mixes have gone to hell. As near as I can figure, the monitors are so good they're actually TOO forgiving of mistakes. Sure, I can hear things that never showed before. But where my old computer speakers would rumble when the bass was too loud, and the headphones would buzz when the mids clipped, the new monitors take whatever I pump through them and make it sound good.

Is this a common experience? Is it just a matter of me getting used to the response of the new gear? And if so, is there anything I can do to speed the process?

Related: can an good engineer create a decent mix using only a single set of reference monitors (assuming he's intimately familiar with the speakers,) or does even Bob Katz have to run out to the car to check levels? I mean, I know it's always a good idea to check a mix on as many systems as possible, but I also thought the point of a decent monitoring setup was to facilitate getting the mix right the first time.

 

[distortedrumble]

the shock effect lol.. some love it. others hate it. take some of your favorite cds and play them through your monitors. use them as reference. get yourself situated to using them. your monitors are able to handle more power and better frequency response than your computer speakers or your headphones. just take a good 2-3-4 hours and chill out in front of them and just relax and listen. try mixing the next day and see what happens.

 

[grinder]

While mixing, keep checking the mixes with the comp. speakers and phones. You will have to burn lots of cds, to check on other systems. You will gradually get used to your monitors and need to check the mixes less. It is good to have referance speakers, other than your monitors, just to check how your mixes are translating.

 

[LemonTree]

what ARE the new "decent monitors" you bought? And do you have them in an acousticaly treated room?

The room will have a huge part to play in your mixes no matter how good your monitoring chain is.

Also, you'll want to burn in the new monitors with a good 30 to 40 music hours before they bed in.

Alec

 

[kedman]

Flat sounds and Pc's

HI
Just a thought. Your old mixes may have sounded good on the pc/headphones but I guarantee that they would sound awful on a radio or large sound system, club/rave.
Your new monitors are probaly closer to what is a good mix/sound.
Just take your time and listen and then listen again. I'm in the same boat here with the Behringer truth actives.

They need to be ran quite a long time and I'm still setting them up.

cheers
Bob

 

[DM1]

Thanks for the responses. I'm taking distortedrumble and kedman's posts as permission to veg out this afternoon

It is good to have referance speakers, other than your monitors, just to check how your mixes are translating.

That makes sense, for sure. Is it possible, though, to know a pair of monitors so well that a reference isn't actually needed? I mean, can an engineer develop that level of trust in his equipment?

what ARE the new "decent monitors" you bought? And do you have them in an acousticaly treated room?

Wharfedale 8.2a's, and no, the room isn't treated. I appreciate the importance of every part of the monitoring chain (and plan to properly treat my space as finances allow,) but I thought that even without taming reflections and such, the improved quality of the monitors alone would make mixing a little easier.

I suppose it could be the opposite .. Better equipment exposes flaws in my mixes and in my listening environment.

 

[kedman]

" I'm taking distortedrumble and kedman's posts as permission to veg out this afternoon "


Cool, so am I!!

Just ran some test stuff on the behringers and reducerd the top to -2 db this really helped
keep listening!
Cheers
kedman

 

[distortedrumble]

That makes sense, for sure. Is it possible, though, to know a pair of monitors so well that a reference isn't actually needed? I mean, can an engineer develop that level of trust in his equipment?

yeah but just like you said...he has to develop it. its no different than getting in a new car. you gotta get used to the surroundings, how it handles and what all the bells and whistles do. after a while you'll just sit in front of your monitors and go to work like its an extension of you.

 

[LemonTree]

Wharfedale 8.2a's, and no, the room isn't treated. I appreciate the importance of every part of the monitoring chain (and plan to properly treat my space as finances allow,) but I thought that even without taming reflections and such, the improved quality of the monitors alone would make mixing a little easier.

I suppose it could be the opposite .. Better equipment exposes flaws in my mixes and in my listening environment.

I bought my Wharfedales back in August. I instantly heard all the bad bits in every mix I had done previous to getting them. Soon after I had them, even with the improved imaging and defenition I went ahead and treated my room, soffiting them on the front wall above the desk...what a difference! All my mixes transfer to every system I've listened on now.

They can sound a bit harsh at the top for a while but just keep playing your CD collection on them till your ears get used to them and the tweeters settle in. I'd replace mine in a heartbeat if I had to with more of the same.

 

[Commander]

take some of your favorite cds and play them through your monitors. use them as reference.

Excellent advice! Just chill out with them in the room for a few days listenng to all your favourite stuff and they will become second nature to you. It's always worth having other reference sources too like a really bad ghetto blaster with audio inputs, or an old TV speaker. The 'car' test is always a good one as well. Mixing on headphones is never a good idea and it is likely that the mixes you are used to hearing would not translate too well to the outside World.

Here's a tip: try the closed door test on your mix. When you think you are just about there with your mix, go have a cup of coffee, take a walk, anything. When you return to the studio listen to the track from behind a closed door. Anything in the mix that isn't sitting properly will leap out at you.

 

[kedman]

Here's a tip: try the closed door test on your mix. When you think you are just about there with your mix, go have a cup of coffee, take a walk, anything. When you return to the studio listen to the track from behind a closed door. Anything in the mix that isn't sitting properly will leap out at you.

Now thats a nice idea!
Thanks
Bob

 

[quadrajet]

...does even Bob Katz have to run out to the car to check levels?

Wow...I thought I was the only one who did that! Cool - now I don't feel so bad!

 

[DM1]

Lots of great ideas. Thanks very much everyone!

Here's a tip: try the closed door test on your mix.

Now thats a nice idea!
Thanks
Bob

Ya, I agree. Cheers, Commander. (FWIW, something similar that has helped me is listening to a mix in my car at a really low level. I noticed a few years back that when I turn down the volume on a commercial CD, all I hear is the kick, snare, and lead vocal. Trying to emulate that effect in my own mixes helped me get a much better balance between the drums, instruments, and vocals.)

soffiting them on the front wall above the desk... what a difference! ... just keep playing your CD collection on them till your ears get used to them and the tweeters settle in.

Well, I've been running them non-stop now for about 8 hours. I also re-tweaked my setup, paying closer attention to the details in this thread. Fingers crossed (though I swear I can already hear a difference .. Like my previous setup had me sitting right in a low frequency null, or something.)

 

[billmcdonald]

I heard that geting a pair of headphones and sitting them on the floor, and anything out of place will pop out at you. Similar to the closed door idea.

 

[reshp1]

Wow...I thought I was the only one who did that! Cool - now I don't feel so bad!

I do it too, it's a good idea because I spend 1 1/2 hours listening to music in my car everyday during my commute. I know that listening enviroment better than any other. Plus the asymetric/non-box shape of the car lends to fewer standing waves.

 

[EdWonbass]

I don't even have a studio anymore. I only work in my truck now. I do some of my best work while driving to work.

I joke of course. I got my Wharfedales a month and a half ago and I'm getting used to them. I too found that all my previous mixes sounded like crap and started to remix stuff. Whenever I get writters block I remix old stuff.