New Guy in a New Situation HELP!

  • Thread starter Thread starter jaykeMURD
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jaykeMURD

jaykeMURD

I sit on you.
Howdy everyone. I've just started my "home studio", and I have a somewhat limited experience with this sort of thing. I am saavy, however, with computers, electronics, and the like! Eventually I hope to be capable of recording a full band. Guitar(s), bass, vocals, drums, etc. I write a lot of my own music, so that's why I'm making this studio, to record my blunders into music. So far, what I have acquired...

Computer
AMD Athlon XP 2400+, 1GB RAM, nVidia GeForceFX 5700LE, 80 GB HD, and the nexly added, M-Audio Delta 1010 LT PCI sound card. I use Cakewalk SONOR 4 Producer Ed.

Behringer UB1222FX-PRO Eurorack Mixer
MXL 900/991 Condenser Mic Package


As a drummer, I really want to be able to record drums, soon, so I'm saving for some drum mics. I can make great sounding acoustic guitar tracks and DECENT sounding vocals. But electric guitar really lacks. I cannot seem to figure out how to get a good sound out of it. I've tried micing the amp, going directly in to mixer, etc. Guitar just sounds so bland and neutral. What do I need, some sort of preamp for the guitar? I want something that will allow me to use between the mixer and mic/instrument for everything. (vocals, guitar, bass, etc.) Please, help me out.

P.S.- I really love these forums. i just discovered them, and love this helpful "database"!
 
One of these would probably solve your 'bland and neutral' problems...

They're good for bass too.
 
While the V-amp idea will work...

I wouldn't get one, nor would I get a pod either (unless I used it as a pre for a tube power amp), it's just my opinion, but I think they sound so fake sometimes! They can be good, but they won't give you 'pro' sounds, which is what it seems like you're searching for.

Let me tell you about what I know about recording a guitar. The MXL mics you're using are good for acoustic guitar, they're made for it actually, but micing an amp is like wrestling with a monster. The delicate sounds of an acoustic are what SDC's and MDC's (your MXL pack are these) are made for! But amps usually need a good dynamic or ribbon to help them get accross to your CD well. The standard is an SM57, but other mics will help with a good balance and blending. I use up to 8 different mics at the same time - and that's just one amp...it can be more for more amps...

I use a 57, a Sennheiser e609s and MD421, and sometimes I'll use a Beyer M201TG or AKG D112 right up against the grill. Sometimes I'll stick them all on the same speaker, usually I try not to. Other guys I know LOVE ribbon mics here, but I don't have one. Next I'll have some Small Diaphragm Condensors (usually a pair of the same mic, perferably matched) 2-5 feet back, experimenting with placement till it sounds right. After that I'll have 1 or two Large Diaphragm Condensors farther back (4-12 feet) - sometimes equal and matched, other times different and at different distances. The key to it all is the fact that I DON'T ALWAYS USE IT ALL. I experiment, find what's good and what isn't and blend the good and get rid of the bad.

Now I know you're thinking "I don't have those mics and I don't have any Money". None of us did when we started...we saved and built up our mic collections. I have over 15 mics now, and I started with one SM58! Be careful and spend time reading about what kind of mics you need and what you can do with them! The awesome thing about making music is that it's ART! There are NO rules...but there are good ideas and bad ones! It's a bad idea to mix paint, leave it over night and expect it to still be perfect in the morning...just like it's a bad idea to stick a crappy SDC right on the grill of your amp!

By the way, I almost exclusively use an LDC for vocals, unless it's a dynamic like the SM58 which is made almost exlusively for vox.

Another thing that I know about recording is that you need decent pre-amps. The unit you've got will do, but nobody around here would choose it first, at least, I don't think they would. I suggest you look at some decent bang-for-your-buck pres like the M audio DMP3. There's good and there's bad out there...so be careful!

Also, what kind of guitar, what kind of amp and how loud are you playing? Recorded guitar amp settings shouldn't likely be the same as a live amp setting...you need to find that part of the eq frequency that allows for you tone to be maximized...experimentation is a must!

Finally, don't let anyone tell you that you're doing it wrong. But listen to other peoples methods and learn how adapting or adopting them can make your recordings better. I'd love to help you out any way I can!

Jacob
 
What kind of amp? what kind of mic? Where are you positioning the mic? Is the guitar sound coming through the amp, a good tone to capture?

Generally you want to start with a good sound. Try placing mic an 1" away from the grill center of cone. The more you move it off-axis to the cone, the warmer it gets. An SM-57 works well in this situatuion. ;)
 
jkokura said:
I wouldn't get one, nor would I get a pod either (unless I used it as a pre for a tube power amp), it's just my opinion, but I think they sound so fake sometimes! They can be good, but they won't give you 'pro' sounds, which is what it seems like you're searching for.
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I dont really agree. A pro using one will indeed get a pro sound. Maybe not the mic'ed amp sound but one that can be used.

I have a J-station and can get a pro sound out of it ( I use it on violin).
 
DavidK said:
I dont really agree. A pro using one will indeed get a pro sound. Maybe not the mic'ed amp sound but one that can be used.

I have a J-station and can get a pro sound out of it ( I use it on violin).
Click to expand...

Ah...but see you've missed my meaning...as well intentioned as I'm sure you are. With no disrespect, I'd like to say that it is common for people to want a 'pro' (notice the quotation marks) sound, without realizing how much there is to it. They want a quick, easy, cheap, simple solution that will make they're latest beat sound like the real kit tracked in a professional studio, or a guitar tone that was a combination of thousands of dollars in mics placed by professional engineers with experience infront 6 boutique amps that are tracked numerous times and then bounced to a stereo mix...

My point is that people like easy, and sometimes people point them to shiny new toys that advertise 'pro' sounds. I'm NOT suggesting that anyone's doing it here, nor do I feel that the Beri unit is a bad purchase! Lot's of people use them and love them and get great sound from them...my point is I believe that it's more worth it to learn to do it by placing the right mic in front of the right amp.

I'm sure you'll agree that as useful as that Beri unit, or a pod, or anything else like them is, there's NO WAY they come close to a properly miced tube amp! I love the tone I can get with a e609s, an MD 421, an NTK and a pair of MK012's on my vintage Fender tube 112...somehow there just isn't anything like a solid E chord ripped...and it's more satisfying to hear my final mix, and it sounds good! (Once again reiterating that I'm not saying it's impossible with the v-amp, I just don't get the satisfied feeling with it...)

Please understand I'm not trying to offend, just state my opinion...

Jacob
 
Wow, thank you so much fellas. Okay, I'm using a Behringer UltraTwin GX210 60W amp, couple guitars (mainly my ESP/ltd. Viper 301), and my Digitech X-Series Metal Master. This is the same setup I'd use jamming/practicing with a band, add 5-6 more pedals though! I will undoubtly be purchasing ATLEAST one sm57, prob 2. One for my snare, and other for guitar micing.

HEY, jkokura, my name's Jacob too! NOICE. :D
 
jkokura said:
I'm sure you'll agree that as useful as that Beri unit, or a pod, or anything else like them is, there's NO WAY they come close to a properly miced tube amp!
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I LOVE my pod to death, but I'll definately agree with you on that one. No d.i. will ever sound as nice as a properly miced tube amp.

I record with mine pod all the time, I plug my guitar into the pod, plug the pod into my trusted ampeg vt-22 combo, put a little mic infront of that and record away.

It's the best of both worlds because I can make my old ampeg just beg for mercy.
 
jkokura said:
My point is that people like easy, and sometimes people point them to shiny new toys that advertise 'pro' sounds.

I'm sure you'll agree that as useful as that Beri unit, or a pod, or anything else like them is, there's NO WAY they come close to a properly miced tube amp!

Please understand I'm not trying to offend, just state my opinion...

Jacob
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Absolutely agree, and no offense taken.

It.s more a question of semantics: indeed a mic'ed amp will kick ass on the majority of work.
The point is was trying to make: I read here and there from novice recordists who say " I just started guitar, I need Pro Tools for that "pro" sound". In the real world they will get the same sound from $40 software at Best Buy if they dont know how to use either.

For me, I find the Pod's to get a different sound than amps. Certainly not a better sound, but a sound that can be useful in the recording environment. Since I use violin, there is no de facto "amped violin" sound to compare it with, I am not emulating a certain sound, I am making up my own. I agree that its a second-rate way of copying an amp sound, but its useful for creating more abstract sounds.
 
Wow...Violin through a pod huh? Got any samples of these cool sounds? I wanna hear it now!

Jacob (not me), good plan on the SM57...I'd suggest you get at least one. They're useful in so many areas! But again, my experience would have me looking at saving and getting a real LDC...Vocals through a 990 and 991 or SM57 can be done though...

Jacob
 
Wow...Violin through a pod huh? Got any samples of these cool sounds? I wanna hear it now!
Click to expand...

Send me a PM with your email, I will send you an mp3. I have a sample of me going through quite a few of the sounds, its bitchin. :cool:

Its not a Pod actually, its a J Station.
 
jkokura said:
Wow...Violin through a pod huh? Got any samples of these cool sounds? I wanna hear it now!

Jacob (not me), good plan on the SM57...I'd suggest you get at least one. They're useful in so many areas! But again, my experience would have me looking at saving and getting a real LDC...Vocals through a 990 and 991 or SM57 can be done though...

Jacob
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YES!!! I now have TWO sm57s on their way to me! I'm not as worried about vocals as I am drums and guitar(s). I'm certaintly not too talented in the vocal field! :)
 
jaykeMURD said:
YES!!! I now have TWO sm57s on their way to me! I'm not as worried about vocals as I am drums and guitar(s). I'm certaintly not too talented in the vocal field! :)
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I was wondering, could you post some of your current work?

Jacob
 
I'll have to find something I've recently done. Most of it isn't one bit "polished" or mastered yet. Gimme a few days.
 
I have a V-Amp Pro in my rack and I've had some really good results with it. There's some samples in my sig of bands I've recorded using it. You Have to go to Discography/singles then listen to DECODA or THE AERIALS. V-Amp used on both bands
 
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