New equipement, new troubles....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dogman
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Dogman

Dogman

Unkle Ticklefingers
I recently got some new equipement, and seem to be having trouble setting it up properly. I have an AT 4040 mic, going into an Audio buddy pre, then into a delta 44 breakout. My vocals are horrendously thin and lifeless, even with the pre turned up so much that there is a lot of background noise. I have tried turning it down and getting close, and turning it up and moving back. Still no luck. I recorded an acoustic guitar from about 12" away, and it was cheap sounding. Sounds like it was recorded in a long tunnel.

The cable I use are just instrument cables, 1/4". I also just got a RNC, but haven't tried much with it, as I can't get a good sound at all yet. I use Audition, and have just been recording to the pc. Any thoughts as to what I may be doing, or setting up wrong?

Thanks for any help.
Ed
 
I don't think it's you doing something wrong as much as having the wrong combo. My primary vocal mic is an at4040 into a JoeMeek Twin Q. I have the Audio Buddy as well, and it is a pretty clean pre for the money, and the 4040 can be great on some things but not on others. I would recomend getting to know that compressor real well, because that will add a lot to your mix. I would also suggest playing around with some of the EQ plugins in Audition, but I am a Cubase user, and don't know much about Audition.

Pete
Meter 12
Burn Cycle Productions
 
Thanks guys. bigwillz, I have an XLR from the mic to the pre, then 1/4" to the compressor, or breakout. Are instrument cable good enough, or do I need something different. And the pad is set at -10. Is that what I need, not 0?

battleminnow, with the Audio Buddy, do you turn the pre way up, and move back some, or try and keep it quieter, and stay nearer. I've never had a mic with a real pre before, so have been experimenting a lot, and still have found no setup that seems to work very well. I've been using the EQ plugins lately, and that has helped some, but the recording just seems all mids, and no life. Like I was in a tunnel. And the compressor, it's way different than the plugins are!! I haven't used it much yet, as I just got it Wednesday, so it will take a bit of time to set up. Any suggestions there would be great.

Anyways, thanks guys. Really appreciate the help.
Ed
 
Any more ideas? Is my room the culprit? Just a 12X12 bedroom, with some shit in it.
Ed
 
What is the wall material and floor material? Where in the room are you located, such as in a corner, in the middle, etc.?

I would say try to use the mic in a different room (couple some xlr's together) and record it, or hang some blankets or outher heavy material first to see if changing the sound of the room changes the sound of the mic. It might just be a bad combo. Mine sounds fine, but to be honest I don't use it much because I have a TwinQ. It could also be the phantom power (I don't know how sensitive AT's are to that) because the Audio Buddy doesn't put out a true 48 volt supply.

Pete
Meter 12
Burn Cycle Productions
 
battleminnow said:
What is the wall material and floor material? Where in the room are you located, such as in a corner, in the middle, etc.?

I would say try to use the mic in a different room (couple some xlr's together) and record it, or hang some blankets or outher heavy material first to see if changing the sound of the room changes the sound of the mic. It might just be a bad combo. Mine sounds fine, but to be honest I don't use it much because I have a TwinQ. It could also be the phantom power (I don't know how sensitive AT's are to that) because the Audio Buddy doesn't put out a true 48 volt supply.

Pete
Meter 12
Burn Cycle Productions
Click to expand...

Ok. If the Audio Buddy is not putting out proper power, then could that make it all middle heavy? Sounds like I'm in a tunnel. Maybe not that bad, but not good and clean. As far as the room goes, bedroom with sheetrock/texture walls, and my recording equipement in it. I did notice the guitars were ringing a bit, so covered them with a blanket, and madw a hanger for another quilt, just around me and the mic. Still sounds very muddy. I know nothing about the pre, so it could be the culprit. I bought it because I needed phantom power with the mic. I have an SM58, that I have used in a 4 track, with the 4 tracks built in pre's, and it sounds no better. I have been able to eq the sound somewhat, but I don't think I should have to work that hard for just a clean vocal sound.

Thanks for the input, and if you have any more ideas, they would be GREATLY appreciated.
Ed
 
Dogman said:
Ok. If the Audio Buddy is not putting out proper power, then could that make it all middle heavy? Sounds like I'm in a tunnel. Maybe not that bad, but not good and clean. As far as the room goes, bedroom with sheetrock/texture walls, and my recording equipement in it. I did notice the guitars were ringing a bit, so covered them with a blanket, and madw a hanger for another quilt, just around me and the mic. Still sounds very muddy. I know nothing about the pre, so it could be the culprit. I bought it because I needed phantom power with the mic. I have an SM58, that I have used in a 4 track, with the 4 tracks built in pre's, and it sounds no better. I have been able to eq the sound somewhat, but I don't think I should have to work that hard for just a clean vocal sound.

Thanks for the input, and if you have any more ideas, they would be GREATLY appreciated.
Ed
Click to expand...

Some condenser mics will do o.k. without a full +48V of phantom power, while others will behave erratically. That certainly could be the problem. If you have other mics/pres/cables, try out different combinations to see if you can pinpoint it. If not, take your stuff down to a music store and test it out on their equipment.

Also, take the compressor out of the chain for now, just to eliminate that as a possible culprit. As far as gain staging, front-load it, meaning turn the audio buddy up as high as you need it (unless it gets really noisy at high gain) without clipping. The 1/4" instrument cables should be o.k.
 
Thanks scrubs. I took the compressor out, and the sound is still bad. Very muddy middle heavy. Actually weird.

Here is a quick sample recorded today.


Maybe that's how it should sound. Nothing has been done to it. Just recorded and uploaded.

Thanks.
Ed
 
Dogman said:
Thanks scrubs. I took the compressor out, and the sound is still bad. Very muddy middle heavy. Actually weird.

Here is a quick sample recorded today.


Maybe that's how it should sound. Nothing has been done to it. Just recorded and uploaded.

Thanks.
Ed
Click to expand...

Well, it's not as bad as I was expecting. Dry vocal tracks do often sound unusual. Given the mic, though, I would expect better. I am hearing some effect from the bad room. A square room with drywall is one of the worst places to track (I know, I'm in about the same situation). Try clapping your hands in the center of the room. Do you hear alot of early "boioioing" type reflections? If so, hang heavy blankets on the walls and/or drape them over mic stands around you (in front, behind, & to the sides). Also, track at an angle to the wall, not perpendicular (i.e. try facing toward a corner on the opposite side of the room).
 
Thanks again scrubs. I'm thinking of building a small vocal booth, 3 sided and just putting some insulation in it. 3x3 maybe. Do you think this will help? and the handclapping shows massive reflections. If it's just the room, and everything else is ok, then at least I have some direction. I thought maybe I had some bad equipement. I know I'm not a singer, but I should be able to at least capture what comes out.

Thanks again dude.
Ed
 
Dogman said:
Thanks again scrubs. I'm thinking of building a small vocal booth, 3 sided and just putting some insulation in it. 3x3 maybe. Do you think this will help? and the handclapping shows massive reflections. If it's just the room, and everything else is ok, then at least I have some direction. I thought maybe I had some bad equipement. I know I'm not a singer, but I should be able to at least capture what comes out.

Thanks again dude.
Ed
Click to expand...

I really don't know anything about vocal booths. You may want to inquire in the Studio Building forum. Also, I cannot rule out the insufficient phantom power as at least a contributor, but it seems like your room is more of an immediate problem. Keep working on it. Good luck.
 
scrubs said:
I really don't know anything about vocal booths. You may want to inquire in the Studio Building forum. Also, I cannot rule out the insufficient phantom power as at least a contributor, but it seems like your room is more of an immediate problem. Keep working on it. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks again. I don't know much about accoustics, so will do some research. Might have to get a different pre. Where'd you by your Brick? I haven't seen them on the few site I look at for buying. Someone said guitar center, but I didn't find one there.
Ed
 
I guess I will be saving up for a new pre, in the near future. Is the Brick your choice in this pricerange? I know NOTHING about this stuff. My only other recording was on a $100 cassette 4 track, with a $16 Sony mic. We placed it near the drummer, and recorded guitars and bass with line out on the amps, then overdubbed the vocals. I thought I could sing!!! Of course, that was 1985, and everyone was either drunk, or something.
Thanks.
Ed
 
Dogman said:
I guess I will be saving up for a new pre, in the near future. Is the Brick your choice in this pricerange? I know NOTHING about this stuff. My only other recording was on a $100 cassette 4 track, with a $16 Sony mic. We placed it near the drummer, and recorded guitars and bass with line out on the amps, then overdubbed the vocals. I thought I could sing!!! Of course, that was 1985, and everyone was either drunk, or something.
Thanks.
Ed
Click to expand...

I would say, when upgrading, try to get the best that you can afford. Alot will depend on your budget. You have a decent mic and it should be complimented by a decent pre. For inexpensive pres, I own the M-Audio DMP3 and the SP VTB-1. Both are very usable pres for not much money (under $200). Also in that pricerange is the Rane MS-1B, which gets good reviews. On such a tight budget, you basically just want clean gain.

Now, when you step into the mid-level gear (less than $1000/channel), there are a number of decent options. Unfortunately, I have not tested much of this gear, so I can't give comparative recommendations. I will say that the brick is a very good pre for vocals and as a DI for bass. I also like it for miking guitar amps. Other pres that get great recommendations in the mid-level arena include the Grace 101 (very clean sound), the RNP (two channels, slightly colored), Sytek mpx-4aii (4-channel), and Speck 5.0. I'm sure there are others. You might also want to check out some of the Joe Meek stuff, as it is very popular for a good rock sound.
 
Thanks for the info scrubs. I will probably wait and spend a little more money, $500 or so, as I have done the cheap route already, and the system works. Probably more me getting to know the equipement, and mainly improving my performance. bigwillz said to turn the pad off. Should it be -10, or 0? I've been using it at -10.

Again, thanks dude.
Ed
 
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