New Concept, New Band, New Song, New Mix

[PoeticIntensity]

So... I got this flyer telling "all musicians" to come to this locally sponsored "music fest". Ended up being one of the coolest experiences I've ever had, musically.

The concept is - take 1 Saturday, and a bunch of random musicians get together, form groups, spend 3 hours writing a song, then a couple more rehearsing, then perform it that night in front of hundreds of family and friends. I ended up joining with 4 other bandmates, and this is what we came up with.

This has to be one of the weirdest mixes I've ever done, mostly because I had to get the whole thing tracked in 1.5 hours with a strange mix of musically experienced people, and then try to make it sound good. Ended up being pretty messy, but... I thought I'd post it here to see what you guys thought.

I'm on backup vocals and drums. The lead guitarist is a 16-year old boy who hadn't ever played with a band before (AMAZING talent).

Anyway... Just wanted opinions on the song / mix / arrangement.

Thanks!

Tell Me Why by Ear Candy

 

[austinm08]

That sounds like it would be a lot of fun! So... the tracking part of this, was that included in the "music fest" thing, or did you get together later to record.. or?

One thing that stuck out to me was that the acoustic sounded unnaturally louder than the electric 'lead' that came in at 0:41. I think that electric needs to be louder..

I like the drums -- they sound pretty tight.

Love the guitar at 2:45 right on "So tell me". Maybe even bring it up a bit at that point just to accentuate it?

Also, the harmonics and muted strum on the electric between 0:43 and 0:53 may be a tad hot. It sticks way out and is kind of distracting. I think if you drop it down a bit it could help complement the mix better.

 

[rayc]

Hello PI,
Given the constraints I think it's an amazing result. Without the constraints it'd still be fine.
I listened to the harmonics twice specifically and they do come a bit to far forward on the last couple - I'd have been tempted to do the same as they probably get swamped if pulled back a tiny bit.
I ike the acoustic over the top of the electric at 0.41 - possibly bacuas ethe electric sounds a little genericmetal and it would have swamped things - the acoustic give a bit of clarity & air to that section.
I think you have to EQ carve a little space for the bass - it does have definition at times but is a little uneven tonally. Maybe try my usual fix: 6db cut at 100hz, 5db boost at 200hz & 6 db boost at 3Khz - all fairly narrow Q.
the electric player seems pretty flash for his age - a little too shreddy in the solo & the fuzz he's using is a bit too fizzy.
Your BVox need a bit of a boost.
All in all pretty bloody fabbo!
Are you going to tweak it or leave it as is?
I'd like to hear what else you can do with it!

 

[VomitHatSteve]

That does sound like it would be a lot of fun!

Anybody in Dubuque, IA want to organize one of these things?

This is a pretty solid song. For one day for the entire production, I don't really have an critiques.

 

[Greg_L]

Lol. That sounds like pure hell of an experience for me....and for anyone else stuck with me. I don't work well with others.

I guess it aint bad for one afternoon. The song is pretty boring. I'm personally not a fan of acoustics - pretty much ever - and the lead tone is too over the top and wanky. An overdriven but less fizzy metal tone would suit the distorted guitar better. Think something like Slash's tone. Natural-ish amp distortion - no fuzz. Those two things are a huge turn-off for me, but that's just me. Overall yall came together pretty well. The highlight is your drumming once it gets going, but you did yourself an injustice in the mix. The snare seems to be leaning left, and the kick and toms vanish when things get loud. I'm probably the last person that should talk about drum technique because you're certainly a better player than I am, but your power drops when you go into a fill. Stuff like that is natural if you're really blazing, but you didn't do anything particularly death-metal fast, so the power should have stayed up there. It doesn't help that the guitars and bass make a wall of mash that covers the kit up.

 

[PoeticIntensity]

That sounds like it would be a lot of fun! So... the tracking part of this, was that included in the "music fest" thing, or did you get together later to record.. or?

One thing that stuck out to me was that the acoustic sounded unnaturally louder than the electric 'lead' that came in at 0:41. I think that electric needs to be louder..

I like the drums -- they sound pretty tight.

Love the guitar at 2:45 right on "So tell me". Maybe even bring it up a bit at that point just to accentuate it?

Also, the harmonics and muted strum on the electric between 0:43 and 0:53 may be a tad hot. It sticks way out and is kind of distracting. I think if you drop it down a bit it could help complement the mix better.

Thanks for the comments, Austin! I *was* pretty happy with the mix, that is until I posted it here. Your ears are too good.

I agree with the harmonics / muted strum comment. That has to come down a bit.

Oh, and the recording was done after we performed that evening... We had to cut out of the concert to get it recorded, but it was worth it. We were the only band who had anything recorded at the end of the day. Pretty memorable event.

Hello PI,
Given the constraints I think it's an amazing result. Without the constraints it'd still be fine.
I listened to the harmonics twice specifically and they do come a bit to far forward on the last couple - I'd have been tempted to do the same as they probably get swamped if pulled back a tiny bit.
I ike the acoustic over the top of the electric at 0.41 - possibly bacuas ethe electric sounds a little genericmetal and it would have swamped things - the acoustic give a bit of clarity & air to that section.
I think you have to EQ carve a little space for the bass - it does have definition at times but is a little uneven tonally. Maybe try my usual fix: 6db cut at 100hz, 5db boost at 200hz & 6 db boost at 3Khz - all fairly narrow Q.
the electric player seems pretty flash for his age - a little too shreddy in the solo & the fuzz he's using is a bit too fizzy.
Your BVox need a bit of a boost.
All in all pretty bloody fabbo!
Are you going to tweak it or leave it as is?
I'd like to hear what else you can do with it!

Thanks, Ray! Umm.... yeah... the harmonic muted guitars are definitely coming down. I'll probably have to automate that. Ugh...

Hmm... The bass... I'm conflicted on this one, mainly because when I listen to this song through a nice stereo with a sub, that bass is amazingly clear to my ears. Yet.. When I listen on a crappy system, or one with no sub, it seems uneven. I'll see if I can do what you say and hopefully it helps out.

I thought I was done with this mix, but I'll probably end up tweaking it a bit more. I really want this mix to shine - mostly because the tracking was probably the most horrible tracking I've ever done (all done in 1.5 hours, with mostly people who had never before been in a studio) - thus making the mixing that much harder.

Thanks again, Ray.

That does sound like it would be a lot of fun!

Anybody in Dubuque, IA want to organize one of these things?

This is a pretty solid song. For one day for the entire production, I don't really have an critiques.

Thanks for the comment, Steve! Round of Rep for all!

Lol. That sounds like pure hell of an experience for me....and for anyone else stuck with me. I don't work well with others.

I guess it aint bad for one afternoon. The song is pretty boring. I'm personally not a fan of acoustics - pretty much ever - and the lead tone is too over the top and wanky. An overdriven but less fizzy metal tone would suit the distorted guitar better. Think something like Slash's tone. Natural-ish amp distortion - no fuzz. Those two things are a huge turn-off for me, but that's just me. Overall yall came together pretty well. The highlight is your drumming once it gets going, but you did yourself an injustice in the mix. The snare seems to be leaning left, and the kick and toms vanish when things get loud. I'm probably the last person that should talk about drum technique because you're certainly a better player than I am, but your power drops when you go into a fill. Stuff like that is natural if you're really blazing, but you didn't do anything particularly death-metal fast, so the power should have stayed up there. It doesn't help that the guitars and bass make a wall of mash that covers the kit up.

Okay, Greg. What in the world are you talking about? I can easily name 4 or 5 areas in drumming where you could pound the crap out of me. Speed, consistency, and timing being 3 of them. How in the world can you say that I'm "certainly a better player" than you!?!?! I'm curious... because you're dead wrong.

Now... How in the world did you get the ears you got? I've said it before, and I'll say it again - your day job had better be something musical, or you're doing the musicians of the world a great injustice.

I've listened to this mix at least 50 times, and never noticed the snare leaning to the left. Yet, when you said it, the next listen made it painfully obvious. *sigh*. That is not a mistake that's easily correctable in this mix, either. I'm fairly certain it's phasing that's making it lean left. crap.

Even with my ranting earlier, I still have to thank you for your kind comments on my drumming. Coming from you, it means quite a bit. Now, I'm not sure what to think about the whole "losing power in the fills" thing. The only thing I can make of it - is that the fills suck or something, which I'm open to accepting. The more I listen to it, the more I think the fills should have been cut back a bit. Some of them go on for 2-3 measures. In order to cut them back in the recording, I'm gonna have to re-track most of the drumming. I don't think I'm up for that.

All in all, thanks for the comments, guys. I'll be tweaking it for sure. Not sure when I'll have the time, but I'll get to it.

 

[Greg_L]

Well from what I've heard, I think you're a better drummer than me in the sense that you're more versatile and seem to have a much larger drumming "vocabulary" than I do. Maybe I'm faster and have decent timing, but I play simple stuff. I just pound and bash like a mongo. It works for me and I like it, but you seem to have some dynamics. I'm sometimes envious of guys like you and Rami that can lay back and play a tasteful beat. My drumming would probably be a trainwreck on a song like this.

What I meant by "losing power in the fills" is that the overall drum sound loses oomph when you go into a fill. The fills themselves are great, they just seem to be played with half the energy. It's like you chug along at 10 during the basic beat of the song, and then drop down to 5 in a fill, and come back up to 10 when you go back into the beat. I personally tend to do the opposite, which may be why it stuck out to me. I play my fills loud, maybe too loud, but I always think of a drum fill as a bridge to guide the song to a different part, or as a flourish of energy that needs to be heard. That's all I meant. Your fills are good, just whack those drums harder in the fills.

 

[TripleM]

Generally sounded pretty good.

I didn't care for the distorted guitar sound. Too much gain, which makes it fizzy.

The snare sounds like it's a little to the left - dont' know if that's intentional.

The intro leans to the left too. I think the stereo acoustic has more energy in the low end - which is on the left. Adding to that is a couple of electrics that are out of balance to the left. Real good tone on those instruments though.

Lead vocal is really dry.

 

[Jmoon79]

Man... cool experience for sure... recording sounds great... little tiny things here and there, but I'm not a big enough fan of that style to pop off... Drums are tight, well placed, great space... I wouldn't have noticed the snare leaning either... but I'm a GTR guy. Loved the balance... I think it's damn impressive under the constraints, and impressive by itself... good work man. Always like to hear your posts. Keep them coming.

 

[beatlebum]

Sounds like a blast and its incredible what you achieved under the circumstances. I'm not a drummer but I think there are some pretty cool fills in there!

 

[squibble94]

Pretty cool song. I noticed some out of tune guitar. Tisk tisk
The vocals seem a bit wavery in volume. Maybe a little more compression and even some automation. The lead guitar tone sounded a bit cheap at first. Maybe it was the out of tune-ness again. Also, weird panning??? It started out left, came to middle, then went back left. I didn't really like that. Cool drum sound. I think the snare could have been a tiny tiny tiny bit more ringy for this song. Now I'm just getting picky, but the ending was a bit uncomfortable with the guitar's delay echoing on after everything stops.

Good job for an hour and a half though

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Well from what I've heard, I think you're a better drummer than me in the sense that you're more versatile and seem to have a much larger drumming "vocabulary" than I do.

What I meant by "losing power in the fills" is that the overall drum sound loses oomph when you go into a fill. That's all I meant. Your fills are good, just whack those drums harder in the fills.

Okay... Thanks for the explanation. For a second there, I thought someone deserved a good spanking. Good call on power in the fills. That's something I never really thought about, but I think you're spot on. I've gotta bang the drums harder.

*sigh* - Not that you need it, but someday I hope to be able to give you rep again.

Generally sounded pretty good.

I didn't care for the distorted guitar sound. Too much gain, which makes it fizzy.

The snare sounds like it's a little to the left - dont' know if that's intentional.

The intro leans to the left too. I think the stereo acoustic has more energy in the low end - which is on the left. Adding to that is a couple of electrics that are out of balance to the left. Real good tone on those instruments though.

Lead vocal is really dry.

Good ears, Triple. I plan on balancing out the recording here in the next few days... I've been booked solid in the studio lately, so.. It might be a bit before I get to fixing this.

The vocals actually have a tough of stereo verb on em'.. I kind of like the vocals in this recording. Was your "dry" comment a good one or a bad one, or just stating an observation?

Man... cool experience for sure... recording sounds great... little tiny things here and there, but I'm not a big enough fan of that style to pop off... Drums are tight, well placed, great space... I wouldn't have noticed the snare leaning either... but I'm a GTR guy. Loved the balance... I think it's damn impressive under the constraints, and impressive by itself... good work man. Always like to hear your posts. Keep them coming.

Rock on, bud. Always good to hear someone enjoys my work. Posting here is always a good for a piece of humble pie, for sure. Lots of good ears in this place.

Sounds like a blast and its incredible what you achieved under the circumstances. I'm not a drummer but I think there are some pretty cool fills in there!

Thanks for the comment, and the listen, beatlebum!

Pretty cool song. I noticed some out of tune guitar. Tisk tisk
The vocals seem a bit wavery in volume. Maybe a little more compression and even some automation. The lead guitar tone sounded a bit cheap at first. Maybe it was the out of tune-ness again. Also, weird panning??? It started out left, came to middle, then went back left. I didn't really like that. Cool drum sound. I think the snare could have been a tiny tiny tiny bit more ringy for this song. Now I'm just getting picky, but the ending was a bit uncomfortable with the guitar's delay echoing on after everything stops.

Good job for an hour and a half though

Out of tune guitar? I hope you're talking about the sustained distorted note in the beginning.... We just couldn't seem to get that note right. If you're talking about guitars elsewhere, please let me know where, because we tuned em' all before we recorded.

...and yes... The solo was slightly panned. Not 100% sure if I like it myself. I was wondering if anyone would comment on that.

Thanks for listening, all! Hopefully I'll get to editing this one sometime this week.

 

[rayc]

Greg's ear is amazing isnt it!
I've had him suggest TINY EQ change to a premaster that made a world of diff to the project. I think he could be an ME if he chose to do the learning.
Oh & as to your drumming PI: well your work with Ido is testament to how well you fit into a project.

 

[squibble94]

Out of tune guitar? I hope you're talking about the sustained distorted note in the beginning.... We just couldn't seem to get that note right. If you're talking about guitars elsewhere, please let me know where, because we tuned em' all before we recorded.

Of all times the link decides not to work for me I'm pretty sure the solo was a bit out of tune, and maybe some of the delayed guitars.

 

[TripleM]

The vocals actually have a tough of stereo verb on em'.. I kind of like the vocals in this recording. Was your "dry" comment a good one or a bad one, or just stating an observation?

Just a personal preference thing, but I thought they were a little too dry. I tend to like things dry myself, but that was REALLY dry. If it were me, I'd add a small amount of a vocal plate. Or just turn up the wet/dry mix on what you have by just a nudge. Just me though.

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Greg's ear is amazing isnt it!
I've had him suggest TINY EQ change to a premaster that made a world of diff to the project. I think he could be an ME if he chose to do the learning.
Oh & as to your drumming PI: well your work with Ido is testament to how well you fit into a project.

Yup. Without doubt, Greg could have a career in audio engineering. Most people who have his attitude are puffed-up posers who couldn't critique a tune if their life depended on it. Greg, on the other hand, has managed to pull out, 9 times out of 10, *all* of the stuff I don't like about my mixes, and then some. I've been very impressed, and have learned to value his input. Heh... I always laugh when the noobes can't handle his attitude, and bark at him, thinking he's some talentless prick. Oh, the learning opportunities that have been lost...

Of all times the link decides not to work for me I'm pretty sure the solo was a bit out of tune, and maybe some of the delayed guitars.

Sorry, squibble. My internet connection has been borked the last few days, and my server is on it. It should be back up now, though.

Just a personal preference thing, but I thought they were a little too dry. I tend to like things dry myself, but that was REALLY dry. If it were me, I'd add a small amount of a vocal plate. Or just turn up the wet/dry mix on what you have by just a nudge. Just me though.

Interesting... I'll have to add that to the list of things to try. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[RAMI]

Greg's ear is amazing isnt it!

Yup. he has often noticed things that only become obvious after he has pointed them out.

By the way, Poetic, I love the kik sound. Your drumming is really good, too.

 

[squibble94]

Okay, here it goes.

chorused guitars are a bit out of tune (strumming and harmonics)
Distorted was out of tune in the intro
Solo was out of tune (G String mostly)


So basically all of them but the acoustic. It was that nasty G string

 

[PoeticIntensity]

By the way, Poetic, I love the kik sound. Your drumming is really good, too.

Thank you, RAMI. Coming from a fellow drummer, that means quite a bit. My kick is recorded with an Audix D6, and I've gotta say - I absolutely love the way this mic sounds. It's quite customizable, too. If I want a metal attack, I just put the mic close to the beater, inside the kick. If I want a mellow thump, I put it just outside the reso head. Best kick mic I've used, by far.

Okay, here it goes.

chorused guitars are a bit out of tune (strumming and harmonics)
Distorted was out of tune in the intro
Solo was out of tune (G String mostly)


So basically all of them but the acoustic. It was that nasty G string

Ugh... I don't think I'll have the opportunity to re-record the guitars. It's always good to be reminded of the importance of tuning, though.

 

[FadeToMuffins]

Wow, PI, the mix sounds awesome, especially given the conditions. I think the vox need more compression, as they seem to lose that "up front" effect from time to time. Other than that, I agree with Greg's comment about the lead tone. It needs much more body, less fizz, and probably more volume.

Great drumming by the way. And great mix on the drums as well. I'm usually not a fan of drums without a waterfall of reverb falling off of them, but these definitely have power and presence in the mix, so great job there.