New Analog Convert! Needs advice on Tape.

[dpreed1]

Well I've finally made the plunge into Analog Land at the bottom of the boards here. Decided to get a Tascam 34B, 1/4" 4-track.

While doing searches on tape I see there haven't really been any discussions on the different brands of tape, only talks on the fidelity gained by less tracks on wider tape. Does anyone have a firm understanding on what's gained by using one type of 1/4" tape over another. Quantegy has a 600 series, 499, 456, 467, 406/407 etc...,

I've also noticed that they seem to be the only american distributer left since they re-opened their doors. Anyone else sell tape on this side of the ocean yet?

 

[jpmorris]

Does anyone have a firm understanding on what's gained by using one type of 1/4" tape over another. Quantegy has a 600 series, 499, 456, 467, 406/407 etc...,

I've also noticed that they seem to be the only american distributer left since they re-opened their doors. Anyone else sell tape on this side of the ocean yet?

Well there's also ATR and a few firms who import RMGI SM911 and SM900 from the Netherlands, but not being in the US I couldn't tell you who.

Ampex 456

The '34B will have been factory calibrated for Ampex/Quantegy 456, unless someone has lined it up for some other type since, so that is what you should be using. 457 will also work (it's the same stuff as 456 but on thinner tape for longer playing time).
SM911 (made by BASF/EMTEC and now by RMGI) is designed to be compatible with 456. Zonal's 700 series is also 456-compatible but as rare as hen's teeth. Apparently it's back in production now, although probably quite difficult to obtain in the states.

Ampex 406
406 is a lower-output formulation. It is believed to be softer on the mechanism (as a rule, the higher the output, the more wear on the transport. Not sure why). Like the 457, there is a thin-tape version called 407.
406 has a lower maximum operating level and will start to saturate at lower levels than 456 would. Some people deliberately overdrive it to obtain this effect. I _think_ BASF/EMTEC 468 is equivalent but I'm not sure. Zonal 820 is their version.

A word of advice: do not buy used 406 or 456 unless you can be sure of how old it is. Generally tape branded 'Quantegy' is okay.. if it's Ampex, it may shed (they fixed this problem around the time of the name change). 1995 and onwards should be safe.

Ampex 499
This is high output tape. There is no thin version. It is said to wear the mechanism faster, but allows you to use higher output levels and thus has less hiss. I believe that the BASF/EMTEC/RMGI SM900 is equivalent.
To obtain the best results you'll need to recalibrate the deck to match this kind of tape.. not all systems can handle the output levels required.

In short, you probably want to use 456 or one of its equivalents.

**EDIT**
Do NOT use 467- it's digital tape for machines like the Nagra D/D2 or DASH/Prodigi machines. If it works at all on a '34 it will sound very bad. 600 is intended for voice recording and not music.

 

[Dr ZEE]

practical suggestion from a non-expert (so not to be taken as an advice):
see this place USRecMedia
they still have 456 and 406 on 7" and are trying to get rid of them ... so you can get couple of rolls each for good price and also get maybe couple of those blue-boxed things sm911... and try out for yourself... listen to what your recordings come out like and you may get some good practical idea on what tape is "better" for what and how you record.

also, congratulations!

try GP-9 too, if you find it.
**********
ps
Speaking, of GP-9, since USR is no-longer the place ...what's the good spot where to buy it on-line? I have to try to search. Guys, if you know the good place of the day - , pls, post a link



/respects

 

[Herm]

I agree since your machine is probably set up for 456 or 406 I would keep it simple and get some of that. And if you have that tape on your machine that is in the pic I am guessing that is 601 or 603? maybe,
Anyway I would be putting it in the trash and get some new 456 and not look back.
And congrats on getting a super machine that will sound great.

 

[dpreed1]

Thanks guys...almost bought a 40 reel case of 631 tape off of ebay yesterday. Would have been disappointed with the results. Picking up 4 reels of 456 and will give it a try.

 

[jpmorris]

Thanks guys...almost bought a 40 reel case of 631 tape off of ebay yesterday. Would have been disappointed with the results.

Yech, it could be any age starting from the 1960s. It would probably have shed all over the transport

Picking up 4 reels of 456 and will give it a try.

Buy new tape if you can, or at least 'Quantegy'-branded tape. If it's Ampex, only buy it if the box looks like the (stolen) image below: with the label at the BOTTOM. If it's in the middle like this, either don't buy it, or throw the tape out and keep the spools.
You can buy new tape on a hub or 'pancake' which is cheaper but generally needs to be wound onto a proper spool before you can use it, I've done this with sticky-shed era tapes. It's amazing how bulky the tape is when it's crammed into a plastic bag.

 

[gororbs]

457

I'm a firm believer in 457 tape.

 

[A Reel Person]

Many congrats on the 34B!

Nice choice!.............

I'd not disregard the 631 altogether. Whether it sounds good or sheds has to be tested. You may be fine with the 631, (although it could never hurt to score some 456/7 or 406/7 if u want).

Keep an eye out for 3M 226, too, which is Quantegy 456 compatible. An equivalent to 3M 226 is 3M 250, which is what they call the same stuff on the 10.5" reels. (I believe 226 is 7" only). Also, 3M 806 is Quantegy 406 compatible.

Did anyone mention BASF/EMTEC 911 ???

Unfortunately, no one but Quantegy is currently producing tape, with another tape mfgr (RMGI) looking to come online soon, as yet TBA. Or has RMGI been selling reels already for a short time?

 

[dpreed1]

Doing some searches on the net looks like there will be just these three companies producing the almighty tape.

http://www.rmgi-usa.com/ (RMG International)
http://www.nothingsoundsliketape.com/ (ATR MAGNETICS)
http://www.quantegy.com/

Looks like you can get the RMGI-EMTEC SM911 made in Holland now (at http://www.usrecordingmedia.com which Dr. Zee mentioned earlier).

Anyone done a qualitative comparison between the SM911 tape and Quantegy's 456?

Also, looks like ATR Magnetics formulation is designed for +10db...looks interesting.

 

[Dr ZEE]

Anyone done a qualitative comparison between the SM911 tape and Quantegy's 456?

It never was mentioned on this board, so I'd say: "No"

Also to do so one can't just "evaluate" two rolls of tape by hanging them on the hooks side by side... , but would have to run them on something, while doing something, using something, and then evaluate the rsult through something (including ears as an important evaluating device). And all those "somethings" will add up something to the qualitativeness in the final report, written by an "un"biased and "un"opinionated reporter.

/respects

 

[SteveMac]

It never was mentioned on this board, so I'd say: "No"

Also to do so one can't just "evaluate" two rolls of tape by hanging them on the hooks side by side... , but would have to run them on something, while doing something, using something, and then evaluate the rsult through something (including ears as an important evaluating device). And all those "somethings" will add up something to the qualitativeness in the final report, written by an "un"biased and "un"opinionated reporter.

/respects

Soo Zee, You ARE pretty sure there are no objective answers?

 

[jpmorris]

Doing some searches on the net looks like there will be just these three companies producing the almighty tape.

http://www.rmgi-usa.com/ (RMG International)
http://www.nothingsoundsliketape.com/ (ATR MAGNETICS)
http://www.quantegy.com/

Also, looks like ATR Magnetics formulation is designed for +10db...looks interesting.

I'm not sure the 34's electronics can cope with that energy level. You might have to modify it.. same with GP9.
It is said that Zonal rose again and once again make tape, or possibly have someone else make it for them. Next week I'm hoping to take delivery of some Zonal 700, or possibly an apology if it doesn't really exist.
For your purposes you can probably discount them as I'm not sure they're selling in America anyway.

 

[Dr ZEE]

Soo Zee, You ARE pretty sure there are no objective answers?

sure there are objective ones.
...it depends on the question and the weather.
Example 1:
It's a rainy day:
The question: Is analog recording better than other curently available options in musical production process?
The Objective answer is: "Yes"

Example 2:
It's a sunny day:
The question: "Is digital recording the best option in musical production process?"
The objective answer is: "No"

etc...

 

[cjacek]

It is my understanding that the 6x1 series tapes (631 in the original poster's case) have never been known to exhibit any shedding issues. A lot of the backcoated ones do from Ampex but the 631, which is non-backcoated, should be ok. I have some Ampex branded 631 / 641 tapes that are probably from the 70's or 80's and play and record fine without any probs. The only issue is that the 631 / 641 tapes sound very different than any modern formulation. Their formulation hasn't changed since the 50's. They're a bit "murky" or dark sounding with a substantial cut off in the highs with an interesting midrange. They saturate easily and have more hiss. The 631 or 641 sounds good or bad depending who you ask. One thing's for sure in that the tapes have lots of character.

 

[Beck]

Anyone done a qualitative comparison between the SM911 tape and Quantegy's 456?

Before BASF/EMTEC threw in the towel a lot of people preferred SM 911. It has a slightly better S/N spec than 456. I still use different brands from new-old-stock I have in my studio. Now it looks like I will continue to do so, as it appears we analog aficionados are prevailing (for a time at least).

Here is a quick breakdown of the different compatible tapes for professional music tracking and mastering:

+6 Tapes
Ampex/Quantegy 456/457
Scotch/3M: 226/227, 966/986
AGFA/BASF/EMTEC 468
AGFA/BASF 469
BASF/EMTEC 911
Zonal 700

+3 Tapes
Ampex/Quantegy 406/407
Scotch/3M: 206/207
BASF/EMTEC LPR 35
Maxell XL/XL1 35-90B/35-180B
Zonal 840

+9/+10 Tapes
Quantegy GP9
Ampex/Quantegy 499
Scotch/3M 996
BASF/EMTEC 900
Zonal 999
ATR +10 Master Tape

And since the search feature doesn’t work so well here are some old posts for your enjoyment:

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=1303100&postcount=1

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=1351247&postcount=8

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=1911124&postcount=2

~Tim

 

[SteveMac]

I've mentioned this before, but back in the day people had a true choice of tapes to put their music on. You will find many an engineer or artist that remembers being able to choose a type of tape based on what kind of music they were recording, and everyone had their favorites. Who could ever have imagined it would all end?

This is one of the big differences between analog and digital. It doesn't matter what brand of medium you use in digital because the medium doesn't actually hold sound; it just holds a pattern of 1's and 0's that represents encoded sound. Of course it's important to choose a good quality product to minimize errors, but the medium doesn't actually interact with the sound as tape does.

Interesting point Tim.

 

[Dr ZEE]

Interesting point Tim.

Yeah! Good one!
I'd put it this way (about digital medium): "It does not matter where you can put your things if you've got no things"