New amp rig..

[DrewsRock]

Hi everyone.. I think this is probably my first post..

Anyone have success recording with a 100watt head? I am told I should look for a 50watt so I can use it on stage "and" in the studio.. but everything I like is 100watt..

I am currently using a Digitech 2101 through 4x12 cab but it just does not cut though on stage..

~Drew

 

[Roguetitan]

not without an attenuator.
the reason people are choosing low wattage amps for the stage and studio is because they are able to get the full tube tone at lower volumes and on stage they can get the tone they want at lower volumes and mic the cab to the sound reinforcement system which is something you just cannot do with a high watt amp without an attenuator.
low watt amps can also be used for stage use which a 50 watt amp still requires an attenuator for staage and studio because by the time you are dialed in to that rich overdriven tone of the power amp side the amp is too loud
if you don't use a PA system and don't mind drowning out your other band mates then I guess high watt amps are just fine otherwise they are overkill or for that guy who feels inadequate they are over compensation if you know what I mean

 

[Roguetitan]

whoh wait a miute
isnt that digitech a solid state amp?
what I said above pretty much applies to tube amps I dont know anything about that amp so my answer is pretty much void.

 

[DrewsRock]

yup

Nope your right on track.. the 2101 is a tube amp of sorts but I am dumping that and looking for a tube amp head.. looking at the 2 channel Marshall JVM 210h or Peavey is coming out with a new 50 watt JSX model this fall.. Bill Leverty (Firehouse) said I should go with the Randall MTS but there again.. it is a 100 watt.. sounds great.. but I am in the studio or in a club.. don't need the volume but do need the tone..

 

[WhiteStrat]

I record a lot with my 100 watt tube combo. Sometimes at rediculously low volumes--and I'm pleased with the results. I do have an attenuator, but I don't always use it. Besides, the practical difference between a 50w and a 100w amp is less than you might think.

I don't get down to "crankable" without an attenuator until I get down to one of my 15w amps--or smaller. (Even then it's loud enough to bug the fam.)

 

[ocnor]

I am currently using a Digitech 2101 through 4x12 cab but it just does not cut though on stage..

I switched a couple of years ago from a similar setup [Digitech 2120] to a Carvin Legacy head. The Legacy sounds sort of like a hotrodded Marshall but you don't need to crank it nearly as loud to get a good tone. It has a 50/100 watt switch which shuts off 2 of the power tubes. Unlike most high gain amps it also has a fantastic clean channel.

 

[DrewsRock]

hot plate

So I could get by with a 100watt head and use like a THD hotplate for small clubs and the studio? I've never used an attenuator before..

 

[soundchaser59]

Isn't the 2101 a tube preamp?

If so, why would you dump it at all? Why not use it for the preamp, then feed it into the power in jack of your tube power amp of choice?

 

[ocnor]

So I could get by with a 100watt head and use like a THD hotplate for small clubs and the studio? I've never used an attenuator before..

That is correct. But as WhiteStrat pointed out it's not always necessary. The perceived volume of a 100 watt amp is only twice that of a 10 watt amp.

 

[WhiteStrat]

That is correct. But as WhiteStrat pointed out it's not always necessary. The perceived volume of a 100 watt amp is only twice that of a 10 watt amp.

Agreed. I only use the attenuator to nail that power tube distortion sound at low levels for recording. Maybe I'm not enough of a tone "purist" but I'd never bother with my attenuator in a club setting. I think the distinction between power tube distortion and pre-amp gain is lost in even small live settings--and I like the sound of my amp either way.

 

[Zaphod B]

Speaker efficiency is a major player, too, in the volume equation.

That said: My vintage Matamp is a single-channel, no-master-volume 100-watt amp and for me to get that thing into power tube saturation I am blowing the walls off of any room that isn't pretty darned big. I use a Weber Mass 150 as an attenuator and it works very well.

But if I'm using it for clean work I can get very good tone at very reasonable volumes.

So it all depends on what you're trying to get out of the amp.

 

[Zaphod B]

Agreed. I only use the attenuator to nail that power tube distortion sound at low levels for recording. Maybe I'm not enough of a tone "purist" but I'd never bother with my attenuator in a club setting. I think the distinction between power tube distortion and pre-amp gain is lost in even small live settings--and I like the sound of my amp either way.

I can't do that with my Matamp. There is not enough preamp gain in that thing so the only way to get saturation is with the power tubes.

The Vox is a different story, though. The preamp section breaks up nicely at low volumes. The big difference between preamp and power amp saturation is the power section "sag" that is very audible in some amps - it almost sounds like a compressor.

 

[Tadpui]

I can't do that with my Matamp. There is not enough preamp gain in that thing so the only way to get saturation is with the power tubes.

The Vox is a different story, though. The preamp section breaks up nicely at low volumes. The big difference between preamp and power amp saturation is the power section "sag" that is very audible in some amps - it almost sounds like a compressor.

Exactly! There's just no replicating the sound of a power section pushed to the brink of bursting into flames I'm totally addicted to that sound and character of distortion. Preamp gain is nice to suppliment it, or add some saturation and sensitivity, but when it comes to awesome distortion, pushing the power tubes is the only thing that makes me happy.

The HotPlate is an invaluable tool in achieving that tone for me. Without it, my neighbors would have lynched me by now.

 

[DrewsRock]

Isn't the 2101 a tube preamp?

If so, why would you dump it at all? Why not use it for the preamp, then feed it into the power in jack of your tube power amp of choice?

Yup.. it is a tube pre.. and I do use a power amp and 4x12 cab.. but i am looking for something new.. Been using it since they came out.. must be 15 years now?..

 

[Zaphod B]

Exactly! There's just no replicating the sound of a power section pushed to the brink of bursting into flames I'm totally addicted to that sound and character of distortion. Preamp gain is nice to suppliment it, or add some saturation and sensitivity, but when it comes to awesome distortion, pushing the power tubes is the only thing that makes me happy.

The HotPlate is an invaluable tool in achieving that tone for me. Without it, my neighbors would have lynched me by now.

Yessah!

 

[sarge117]

Record all the time with my Road King. It can be set to 50, 100 and 135 watts.

I set it up on 100 and 135 to record with. I get a tighter sound that way.

My setup is simple. An SM 57 up against the grill.

And I also record at ridiculously low volumes at times. I found the onlly setting on the Road King that needs to be cranked is modern mode, but even then not earth shattering loud.

Sure the amps sound better loud.

But it still sounds better then any cheap low watt tube amp or solid state amp I have played through when at low volumes. And it isn't even close.

So to me it is not a question of the amps wattage, more so a quality of the amp.

 

[buryher17]

I have a Peavey 6505+ and it's the nciest head i've ever played. I play a lot of metal, but i've used many 100 watt heads and they ALWAYS do me well. I've recorded with engl's, mesa triple rec's, 6505+'s, and bogners and there all 100+ watts and are remarkable.

If your tyring to find a budget cab that sounds amazing, hit up avatarspeakers.com They are basically identical to the mesa cabs and sound amazing for 1/4 the price.


hope i was some help

 

[DrewsRock]

Exactly! There's just no replicating the sound of a power section pushed to the brink of bursting into flames I'm totally addicted to that sound and character of distortion. Preamp gain is nice to suppliment it, or add some saturation and sensitivity, but when it comes to awesome distortion, pushing the power tubes is the only thing that makes me happy.

The HotPlate is an invaluable tool in achieving that tone for me. Without it, my neighbors would have lynched me by now.

I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK!.. I'm on the same page brother..

 

[89gtsleeper]

You know I've used a Fender Blues Junior 15 watt combo for everything in the last 4 months. Recording, practice, and live shows. Even outdoor shows. Not only did it hold it's own in terms of volume, but it did so without struggling, and the tone was always right on. I basically used the exact same settings for live, recording, or practice. I would just adjust the input volume a hair up or down for certain shows depending on the room acoustics.

 

[Roguetitan]

Yup.. it is a tube pre.. and I do use a power amp and 4x12 cab.. but i am looking for something new.. Been using it since they came out.. must be 15 years now?..

I might have the perfect and inexpensive solution for you if your amp has an effects loop send and return where you can use the full potential of your tube preamp at low volumes which works really good for the amp I am using it on.
since your amp is a hybrid you will not need a hot plate for the power amp side because there are no tubes to try to get tone from in the first place therefore most of your rich tube tone is coming from the preamp side of your amp. take a look at my review.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=3138532#post3138532