New Acoustic Tune

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powderfinger

powderfinger

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well guys,
i just recorded this acoustic number...i know it's a fairly straight-forward, but try to give tips on the production if possible....reason being, i'm going to try to put together a short disc of solo acoustic stuff, and i'm going to try to get this good so it can be the standard for the rest........any other comments are welcome

the track is called 'just a day in your life'...........the link........

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1642&alid=154
 
GITS = GOOD

The guitars sound really warm and good to me. What can I say, I just like all your stuff. Totally bare instrumentation, but it still sounds unique. The lyrics are engaging, and you're really good at using lines that sound like they COULD be cliches, but that I've never heard. I mean, I've never heard a metaphor even SIMILAR to the "I've got a damned good pocketknife" verse.

The "It's kinda' like" lines are rushed...and you use it too much. Change it up. That's the only thing that bugs me about this.

You're good.
-nobody
 
I really liked the song. I like that laid back feel. I wished the main acoustic guitar was recorded stereo for a more interesting sound since there is nothing else going on, and the guitar fills seemed to all be panned left with nothing to balance them on the right side.

Loved the vocal technique. Perfect for the song.

Twist
 
chris- thanks for the listen, i'll see if i can cook up something other than the "it's kinda like" to break it up; i initially liked having them kind of tie each verse vaugley together, but i can see how it might not quite work like i wanted

twist- i am familiar with stereo tracking an acoustic; however, i've never added another guitar (the lead) once the acoustic is stereo, what's the best way to do this? would the lead still sound fine if the main was in stereo?

thanks guys....
 
Oh yeah...not that you asked me, but yeah...if you do the stereo rhythm tracks thing, I'd just pan the lead more towards center...like -15. In fact, I'm not sure I wouldn't do that anyway unless you were gonna' add another lead on the other side...it does sound a little unbalanced...I, of course, being unbalanced myself, kinda' dug it.

btw...I meant to ask what kind of acoustic git that is...and how you EQ'd it.

(learning...learning...grabbing EVERYBODY'S EQ settings)
 
Excellent tune and performance. Let me spell that out.. E X C E L L E N T ...... I totally dig your vocal style. I also liked that the guitar sound was natural.. not overly eq'd, bright, compressed, blah blah blah.. very warm and intimate. Not intimate like I want to have your baby, but intimate as if I was in the same room... living room that is... ;)

The balance was a little akward for me as well. If you don't have stereo tracks to work with, you can use eq to give a broader field. Lows on the left, highs on the right or vice versa. Then maybe have the lead on the opposite side of the highs. Just a thought.
 
chris- i use a guild d-55...i love the thing...........if i push in the lead track to say 15, should i leave the other git center or the opp 15? oh yeah, and eq....i'm using timeworks' eq plugin which has been great for me because i can basically drag around dots til i think it sounds good, while only vaugley knowing what i'm doing.... so hopefully i can explain the settings......
at the 99hz range i had a gain cut of about -1.9
from there...as the frequencies go up, so do the gains from the 1280hz to about 0 gain and gradually getting to 9390hz at a 3.5 gain boost
 
Nice tune. Guitars sound really good. I concur with chrisharris, guitars recorded stereo, or maybe some chorus... something to give it a bit more substance.

I like your voice, but the places where you intentionally crack your voice (I don't know how else to put it)... I think there's too much of it and it sounds too unpolished. Maybe this is just what you wanted, this is just what I'd do if it were me recording it.

Nice production! Mix-wise you seem to know what you're doing. Keep it up!

Denis
 
JR#97- i love the eq idea, but have no idea how to execute that.....how do you do it? i think that could really help....thanks for the listen

denis- thanks for the listen....hopefully JR#97's eq idea will help the stereo field problem.
 
First of all, I like the song... alot.

That being said, I thought that the "lazy" sound in your voice was overdone. Too much of a good thing, perhaps?
It made the song go from having "feel" to just plain whiney.

That's just one man's opinion, though... based on production work I do for local bands and artists.

Your recording level is too low, it needs to be hotter.

The guitar needs to be "fatter".
Stereo-mic'ing was suggested, and that would help somewhat. But what you really need is a better mic... as a matter of fact, you need TWO good mics to bring out the natural sound of that guitar.
I liked the tone of your acoustic, but your mic of choice doesn't compliment it enough.
The same goes for the vocals... sounds like an SM58 to me, but it was hard to tell because I had to keep the volume low since I got a sleeping baby boy in the house.

The song is great, as far as writing goes... (yes, I write, too!)
I'd just like to hear this song's potential "maximized" on the recording end.
As it sits right now, you've got a nice demo.
 
Buck- thanks for the advice.........i actually recorded everything with mxlv93 condensor mics........i was thinking about getting an art tube pre, do you think this would help?..........you said you do production for local artist........could i get passed that 'demo' sound with mxl mics and a good tube pre, or am i going to be stuck in demo world w/ my equipment?
 
powder,

another nobody here commenting on your stuff... :)

Now I like the way the guitars sound... I wouldn't go messin around EQ wise with them, cuz they're very natural sounding. However I agree with the above comments about the panning... one hard left and the other center is... well ... strange :D So, in this case, the EQ-for-effect that JR suggests might sound good. (Try it; just roll off the lows on the lead, for example... do a shelf EQ below 200Hz and see how the balance changes)

If possible, as they've said, stereo mic yourself. Just did some of that with an acoustic yesterday. See if you cant beg/borrow/steal a pair of oktava mc012s (or suitable replacements -- SD condensors); set up two mic stands so that the mic's capsules meet in a v-shape, at about 120 degrees. "Aim" the point of the V-shape at the guitar's sound hole (hopefully at a chair you'll be sitting in, or near a place where you'll stand)... you should try to mic anywhere from 18 inches to 2 full feet away...

It may take you a while to get each mic's level exactly the same, but do that. If using a compressor, try a very fast attack setting, and a medium release with a fairly high threshold (-8 seems to work for me). (I use a fast attack so that any really out-of-control strums are cut down quickly)

when setting up, roughly, the mics will look like this: /\ (but with a wider angle)

Get them very close, but without touching each other (dunno why; they could probably touch each other without harm... :))

I've seen this setup (x-y) done with the V pointed upward, straight on, or downward. I mic'ed with a slightly downward x-y yesterday, and imhop it came out really well.

As far as the lead, imhop that could remain mono... but it's all up to taste :) Good luck (PS: I really like your stuff)


Chad
 
I thought this was a real interesting song. Good listening. I like the guitar tone. I like you singing voice - very ambient. Lots of good lines thrown into the song, which carry it well along with the guitars.

How about double tracking the "main" guitar part? It might sound nice. Or just do what participant said - he's pretty knowledgable with those things.

I also thought the "creaky" vocal style might have been overdone just a wee bit. It may have caused a pitch issue here or there (listen at 3:18 for one example and see if you agree).

I'm probably too nitpicky - but it's done from a standpoint of trying to make it a better song. I think this is a fine job all around - from writing, performing, and recording/mixing.

Good job. I enjoyed it.
 
new panning

triple m- thanks for the listen....for this particular project (just a hand full of songs) i'm trying my best to stay away from techniques such as doubling...you're right, it could probably help beef it up, but i'm trying for bare-bones and ambience....as for the vocals i'm going to retrack them as soon as i get a tube pre.....

chad- thanks for all the tips on stereo micing......i don't have 2 of any mic, is it possible to do this w/ two different mics?

##
anyhow, i tried repanning the guitar tracks and on the main rhythm i tried doing the eq trick that JR#97 said......let me know what you guys think.........consensus has led me to want to retrack the vocals, but I think that's mainly a performance issue, so I have'nt done that yet
 
A good tube preamp is always a plus, as are better quality mics.

The Marshall by itself isn't going to get you the full sound that your song needs.
I'm a proponent of using a large diaphragm condenser in conjuction with a small diaphragm condenser mic.
To me, that's as good as it gets... especially when you have a nice tube preamp.
I can't stress enough how important mic-placement is, too.
Especially when working with condenser mics.

I place my large condenser mic (RODE NTK) about 12" to 15" in front of an acoustic, and pointed halfway between the middle of the soundhole and the 12th fret.
For the small diaphragm condenser (using my RODE NT-3) I use Harvey Gerst's "over the shoulder technique"... employing a large boom-stand over the shoulder and pointing the mic at a slightly downward angle - halfway between the soundhole and the bottom of the guitar.

Doing it this way gives me the best possible sound... capturing every nuance the acoustic guitar has to offer.
Of course, I also have a nice preamp (MindPrint Envoice) which helps ALOT!

Another important thing to consider is your cables... yes, they DO matter... and the source to which you are recording.

Are you doing this in 24 bit?
If not, you should be.

If you are... are you "dithering" down to 16 bit or "truncating" the recording? (...that's VERY important)
How are the "room acoustics?"
Is is dead where you record?

These are just a few things to consider when you're trying to go from "demo quality" to a more professional sounding recording.
 
I agree with everything Buck has said, except for that over-the-shoulder micing technique. Of course, only rarely, if ever, having gotten beyond "demo quality", what do I know?

Although I do like the immediate vocal sound, I think perhaps you are a little too close to the mic. In any event, the vocal could use a little compression, and, as Buck indicated, a little judicious limiting over all to bring up the level. These things alone should give it more of a "professional" sound. Just don't fall in love with compression and go crazy over it until it ruins your life.
 
Nice song!

I like the variation between the right and left channels. The gits tend to split their roles then merge again back and forth.

As for panning, I find that if you try to do exact mirrors, ie. 50% L- 50% R, it loses fullness compared to say 30 Left- 70 R. Also, I never place a guitar dead center, but I tend to double performances (or quadruple if it calls for it...). But it's best to just use your ear. Get the vocal at a good level and pan, then move the guitars around it. Dimension is the focus (if that means anything to you).

In this particular song, I think a more even stereo spread on the gits works because there aren't a lot of instruments to dance around in the mix. To hard or too soft a pan would upset the balance.

This is very nice. The guitar performances sound pretty damn tight to me. The vocals, while being very catchy, sound more real than radio tends to offer.




PS. I'm hearing clipping at 1:22...

1:23
 
Re: new panning

powderfinger said:
chad- thanks for all the tips on stereo micing......i don't have 2 of any mic, is it possible to do this w/ two different mics?
Click to expand...

I've heard of people using two different mics in the (x-y) pattern, but I haven't done it so couldn't recommend it. Buck has some good advice for using an LD/SD combination... If all else fails, and you can't stereo mic right now... no biggie :) The stuff Buck wrote about getting the quietest possible recording space is good stuff, too. These acoustics I recorded yesterday were done in a partially soundproofed bedroom. Recently read an article by Dave Moulton where he suggests a loudness measurement (SPL) of 40db or less when the room is its quietest.

(EDIT: Now, this was a "mixing" article... but IMHO it applies to a recording space as well...)

Using a "SOUND LEVEL METER" (available from Radio Shack... part #33-2055, BTW) that room measured below 50db (SPLs) when idle -- so it most likely contributed to the successful tracks (the meter doesn't go lower than 50db... when the level is below 50, it reads "LO")

Check the "Studio Building" forum for more info on soundproofing (much of which you can do on a budget).

Buck's info on using a good preamp is on target, too... I used a lowly DMP3 for the guitars, but have heard that Mackie VLZ series mixers do a decent job as well for this sort of thing.


Chad
 
Very nice sounding tune. I like the minimal instrumentation. Gives it a real intimate quality. Nice vocals and good lyrics. Sounds like you have got quite a bit of mixing advice already...

Nice job!
 
Hey Powder.....
Cool song man, I enjoyed this very much. I agree with some of the panning items mentioned. The guit parts sounded a little to spread out and separated for me, imho. I also agree that the signal wasnt quite hot enough. I think the vocals are great. I like the indy feel of them.....nice voice and nice delivery.

Great stuff bro, G
 
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