NEUMANN mic choice

M

Moley1390

Canberran Amatuer
Hey, looking to get my first neumann mic, but really need to keep the price down. The primary purpose is recording trumpet, but would also like something that's useful for vocals, perhaps piano?
So far the choices are:
TLM 102: $799
TLM 103: $1,699
KM 184: $1,200

Any thoughts? For the primary purpose of recording trumpet is it worth the extra 400 to go to the KM 184 or the extra 900 to go to the TLM 103?
 
Moley1390 said:
Hey, looking to get my first Neumann mic, but really need to keep the price down. The primary purpose is recording trumpet, but would also like something that's useful for vocals, perhaps piano?
So far the choices are:
TLM 102: $799
TLM 103: $1,699
KM 184: $1,200

Any thoughts? For the primary purpose of recording trumpet is it worth the extra 400 to go to the KM 184 or the extra 900 to go to the TLM 103?
Click to expand...

Instead of a KM 184, I think I would go for the new KM-A with KK184 head. This will be more versatile as you can change heads as funds allow - and this also enables you to go digital later by sing the KM-D and use the same mic. heads.

But, for what you want to do, I think I would get a TLM 102 and expand on it later as money becomes available.

But get a Rycote USM-L mount to go with it - much better than any other mount.

4268346955_24200196a1.jpg
 
The 102 should be fine for what you are wanting to accomplish.
You won't be spending the big bucks and you'll end up with a microphone with a Neumann badge on it. :D



:cool:
 
Moley,

You are doing 'Apples and Oranges' here; you have two large-diaphragm mics here (102 and 103) and a small-diaphragm (184.)

The first two could be used for vocals; the 184 is really made for instruments such as acoustic guitar, percussion, or perhaps as overhead drum mics.

I have no experience with the 102, so I'll address the other two.

For what it's worth, a colleague uses the 103 for vocals, narration and guitar cab amping and he loves it; I imagine it could be a good all-round budget condenser for you, vocals and horns, plus as a spot mic. I have heard voice recordings with it, and it sounded balanced and quiet under the given circumstances. However, that is just my example.

I own a set of 184s. Now, I play mostly nylon-string guitar, so that's already more on the dark, mellow side, and the 184s work well for that, adding air and top-end detail to the strings, but others have said that the 184s can be too bright on top, depending on application.

Personally, if I were to mic a horn, even not having done it, I would first reach for a large-dia condenser or dynamic, just based on what I see and have read. That's just intuition on my part, not experience.
Someone else with "hands-on" in this can chime in, but I would imagine brass would get pretty 'cutting' with a mic such as the 184.

The prices you quote seem awfully high. Are you looking at the anniversary set of the 103? EBay has plenty of 103s from new on down.

Anyway, my two cents; I hope this helps you.

C.
 
KM 184 and KM 84 are more common mentions in the same sentence as Trumpet. It really depends on what your goals are. 102 and 103 are more common mentions for Vocals. Ribbons work pretty well on brasses. Cascade on the cheap, Royer on the boutique side. Not mics for all occasions, but good in the right environment.
 
I've got a pair of KM84's and a U87.

The KM84 is an absolutely incredibly sounding mic. It sounds like a violin to me if that makes sense. But there's no, I repeat, no bottom end. No bass.

My best friend is a trumpet player, a good one - was with Buddy Rich for over a year and plays with the who's who of the industry in NYC. I've recorded him a lot and the U87 works way, way better. The U87 has switches on it and is very, very useful. You almost have to work at it to sound bad.

I will use the KM84's over the U87 for acoustic guitar and percussion, drum overheads... anywhere I don't want a bunch of bottom. It is the only mic I've ever heard on snare that sounds like a snare.

For lead trumpet the KM84's lack of bass bothers me. The U87 with the bass switch in shelving mode sounds very much like a KM84.

Long and short, I've seen U87's for $1600 on eBay and that's what I'd buy first, but in the end I'd have to have both.

A friend of mine has a TLM103 and I thought that it was good but not very flexible without the switches. So my vote is for a used U87 for $1600.

The worst thing that could happen is that you don't like it and sell it on this forum for $1800, try making a profit on an M-Audio mic.
 
Thanks for all the replies! The quoted prices were AUD, so that's probably why they're so high.
The U87 is nearly $4000 new here in Aus, and i can't find any second hand ones for much cheaper than $3200
That's a fair way out of my price range.
At this stage the 102 is looking like the most suitable option, and I doubt it would be hard to sell if it didn't satisfy (i'm sure it will, i've heard a few Neumanns before!)
Any final thoughts? I'll have to muster up the funds so i'm not in a hurry!
 
You might look at some of the Gefell's. Sort of a sister company. In the sort of way that Microsoft is to IBM.
 
I've had my new little TLM 102 for 3 weeks now and I haven't stopped recording with it. Less money for the great Neumann build quality and sound, it might look smaller but the sound is BIG!!
 
I'm in the camp with others who suggest different manufacturers than Neumann. Unless you're building a mic locker in a studio where clients "insist" you have a Neumann, in your stated price range, I think you might find a better value elsewhere.

There is absolutely no doubt that a top-shelf Neumann doesn't offer quality sound reproduction...but also recognize that there is perhaps a 50% premium built into that price for the badge, over other, equivalent mics. The lower-priced Neumanns are good, to be sure, but they might not offer the versatility (polar patterns) or frequency curves available with other mics at the same price point. Do a Google search on "TLM103 reviews" to see the number of dissatisfied owners of this model.

I'm no expert in recording trumpets, to be sure. But I think it would be helpful to ask yourself, "What sort of trumpet do I want to record?" If the answer is a bright, orchestral trumpet, then your choice of a mic will be different from a dark, jazzy, "Mark Isham" type of recording.

Yours is a difficult decision, I know, and suggestions like mine only further complicate it. Hope something here is helpful.

-Bruce
 
I would go for ribbons for horns/winds personally. Cascade Fat Head II is cheap and awesome, though I've only recorded alto sax with it as far as horns go.
 
bcfromfl said:
I'm in the camp with others who suggest different manufacturers than Neumann. <snip> ...but also recognize that there is perhaps a 50% premium built into that price for the badge, over other, equivalent mics.
Click to expand...

This is total rubbish!

There is nothing at all "added for the badge" - and this is the same for all the top quality manufacturers.

You are paying for high quality design and engineering and very tight manufacturing tolerances.

You can take any two Neumann mics at random (of the same model) and would find that they are close enough matched to be used as a stereo pair - and probably closer matched than a "matched pair" from a cheaper manufacturer.

I read recently that someone had to check a load of Neumann mics for a broadcaster - about 50 I think - and the difference between the "best" and "worst" was only 0.5dB (and most matched pairs are only done to 1dB).

So - please - let's stop this rubbish about paying for the "badge".
 
I'd have to say that my purpose in looking at Neumanns was partly because i wanted a GUARANTEED great mic. I know there are plenty of other great companies, and most of them are in that price range or higher. If anyone has specific suggestions other than the three neumanns above (and a few more in comments) those would be helpful.
The badge is important, as it represents extremely high quality and the utmost attention to detail, however I understand that they are not alone in terms of great microphone manufacturers
 
When I got my 102 I held it in one hand and in the other I held my SP B1....it was like comparing a Ming vase to a Coke can with regard to build. The difference in sound frequency-wise? Don't even start to compare. And I'm running it thru a Behringer Xenyx not an Avalon or such.....

There is absolutely no doubt that a top-shelf Neumann doesn't offer quality sound reproduction

This comment doesn't even deserve an answer......
So the best studios in the world don't offer quality sound reproduction......:rolleyes:
 
joeym said:
There is absolutely no doubt that a top-shelf Neumann doesn't offer quality sound reproduction

This comment doesn't even deserve an answer......
So the best studios in the world don't offer quality sound reproduction......:rolleyes:
Click to expand...


????????????????????

That was precisely my point! There is NO DOUBT!

Cripes is this ever a hostile message board...

-Bruce
 
bcfromfl said:
????????????????????

That was precisely my point! There is NO DOUBT!

Cripes is this ever a hostile message board...

-Bruce
Click to expand...

well then, grammatically it should have read:

There is absolutely no doubt that a top-shelf Neumann OFFERS quality sound reproduction....

Then we would have understood. ;)
 
John Willett said:
This is total rubbish!
Click to expand...

How about saying something like, "This has not been my experience," or, "I have a different opinion," etc. Why resort to this level of incivility?

Back in the days when Neumann was "the" mic manufacturer, there was a world of difference between what they offered and what was available elsewhere. I don't believe this is the case any longer, and a few minutes spent on Google searching reviews will find plenty of dissatisfied owners -- especially when comparisons are made between "old" and "new" designs of the same model. Today you can purchase amazing mics for considerably less than top-end offerings, with comparable build quality, with sound quality that is as good...some arguing better...than currently available Neumanns.

If your point had to do with top-end Neumanns, then I concede your point. If you want to spend $5,000 on a single mic, then you are purchasing a difficult-to-quantify sound quality that perhaps is worth the premium. But if you re-read the original poster's question, and the mics he asks about, I stand firm in what I say.

-Bruce
 
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