Neko Case Discusses Autotune...

nkjanssen

New member
Pretty funny stuff...

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/interviews/c/case_neko-06/

"And if Celine Dion is supposedly the great singer that she says she is why is there auto tune on every fucking word in her songs? Can't you just hit it, Celine? Do you have another baby book to shoot? You gotta paint your baby to look like a pod of peas? What are you doing that you can't be singing in the studio? It's your fucking job!"
 
"There's technology like auto tune and pitch shifting so you don't have to know how to sing. That shit sounds like shit! It's like that taste in diet soda, I can taste it-- and it makes me sick. When I hear auto tune on somebody's voice, I don't take them seriously. Or you hear somebody like Alicia Keys, who I know is pretty good, and you'll hear a little bit of auto tune and you're like, "You're too fucking good for that. Why would you let them do that to you? Don't you know what that means?" It's not an effect like people try to say, it's for people like Shania Twain who can't sing. Yet there they are, all over the radio, jizzing saccharine all over you. It's a horrible sound and it's like, "Shania, spend an extra hour in the studio and you'll hit the note and it'll sound fine. Just work on it, it's not like making a burger!" "Or Madonna! Just hit the note! You can do it, I have faith in you. But don't leave the studio before you hit that fucking note." -Neko

I'm not sure where honesty starts and stops here. First of all, I think the first sentance is a bit off. If someone doesn't know how to sing, Autotune isn't gonna fix it. Anything that's drifting in and out repeatedly by 33+cents is gonna sound like crap, AT or not. Then there's the question of whether it's entirely honest to spend an hour to "hit the note". If I comp a vocal together out of a few dozen takes, and manage to assemble a good sounding track, is that an honest representation of that singer?
 
Robert D said:
If someone doesn't know how to sing, Autotune isn't gonna fix it.

Ever heard the band Smashmouth? Not that I'd ever really given it much thought, because I don't care for their music, but given what I have heard on the radio I guess I would have assumed that their singer could maybe kinda sorta sing, even if his vocal did sound processed all to hell. Then I saw them play live once. Holy crap! Nothing even approximating a note! Kelly Osbourne? Her version of "Papa Don't Preach" is a masters class in making someone who can't sing at all seem like they sort-of can. Sure, it still sounds like shit. But that's really the point, isn't it? The processing can get someone into the ballpark when, naked, they wouldn't even be in the parking lot.
 
"If I comp a vocal together out of a few dozen takes, and manage to assemble a good sounding track, is that an honest representation of that singer?"
More the point I think. Everybody cheats or uses the technology available. The minute you lay a little eq on the voice or compress it, you did that, not the singer. If it sounds good, it is good.

And who cares what Neko thinks anyway?

And if you have to be vulgar and swear to make a point, f%$# it!
 
Big Kenny said:
"If I comp a vocal together out of a few dozen takes, and manage to assemble a good sounding track, is that an honest representation of that singer?" More the point I think. Everybody cheats or uses the technology available. The minute you lay a little eq on the voice or compress it, you did that, not the singer. If it sounds good, it is good.

Personally, I hear Autotune slathered all over everything on the radio and it sounds like shit to me. I can't stand to listen to almost any vocal on any modern pop, R&B or "new country" recording. It's Autotune everywhere and it sounds like ass. Like big gated reverb snare drums in the 80's, it's one of the fundamental elements that is going to make a lot of today's music sound dated and rediculous in another 10 years.

If you like it, though, good for you.

And who cares what Neko thinks anyway?

I don't know. Who cares what you think? Who cares what I think? Why does anybody bother commenting on anything?

Hey, guys, I just thought it was a somewhat humourous interview. Some have obviously taken offense. If Neko just pissed in your cornflakes, I'm sorry about that.
 
Didn't say I liked it, personally, I think the note should be hit, is it gonna change? nah.
Didn't say I was mad, just discussing, thought you wanted to.
 
music is a sad state of affairs. If you can't set up your whole band in the studio and get a great sounding recording after a take or two with the whole band playing together live you suck. I wish a law was passed that all recordings had to be done like jazz recordings in the 40's. A couple of mics straight to the cutting lathe. If you can't hang with that then you are a peice of shit musician and a fraud. I would make an exception for vocal overdubs since it can be difficult to cut vocals with a live band in the studio. No comping allowed though. Most shitty music would dissapear if this became law. Vote for sweetnubs, 2008 bitches!
 
nkjanssen said:
Hey, guys, I just thought it was a somewhat humourous interview. Some have obviously taken offense. If Neko just pissed in your cornflakes, I'm sorry about that.

I don't think anyone took offense. It's a subject that I imagine most AEs struggle with a little. When the product we put out becomes a lie, a gross varnish job on a turd, it can feel a little Scott McClellanish.
I don't think Autotune or Melodyne are entirely evil. I do think they're entirely overused. I think everyone today knows and expects that a studio recording is a different animal than a live performance, and a little foundation and coverup is as valid on a record as it is on a woman. I don't really go for the hairy leg and armpit, no deodorant granola chicks. As a listener, I like a little makeup on the record, which is made up for in other ways in a live performance.
Anyway, my own AT philosophy is it's fine for tightening harmonies, but it rarely belongs on a lead voc.
 
Well, I'd be the first to agree with Anteres being overused as indeed it seems a bit obvious. ON the other hand, a tastefully applied TC-Helicon VoiceWorks (which I did buy for my studio) is like a cherry on top of the iceing which is also on top of a cake. It just makes the presentation a bit more polished, not altogether apologized or compensated for per se. The TC product (unlike Anteres) is so highly finely tunable to allow for a more subtle and slight adjustment that it doesn't mess so much with the voices basic character. It can allow for the offset to be so slight as to give a natural sound without the mechanical jamming into place others do. All in all it's a great processor I would not want to be without. I'm not the ultimate singer, and occasionally go off a bit. I just don't want to be doing so many takes that what voice I have becomes ragged. Just another thought...
 
bullshit, if you are a good musician you don't need these things. Learn how to play then the studio isn't lie. I record full bands live to tape all the time without overdubs.
 
Personally, I don't think that using AutoTune to help better a singer with imperfect pitch is much (if any) different than using compression to help better a singer with poor dynamic control or using EQ to help a singer with imperfect tone.

Sometimes, it's better to leave all aspects of the original performance intact. Sometimes it's not. Personally, I think that a huge aspect of the engineer's job is to make the artist sound better than they actually are. And if AutoTune is what it takes to accomplish that, then I won't hesitate to use it.
 
sweetnubs said:
bullshit, if you are a good musician you don't need these things.
you're right. you don't NEED them. but there is such a thing as making a good thing better. used on a great singer who's laid down a great performance, a little compression, reverb and delay can really make a great track shine that much more.

sweetnubs said:
Learn how to play then the studio isn't lie. I record full bands live to tape all the time without overdubs
let me posit Steely Dan for a moment, then. they certainly used the studio AS a tool and played the studio like it was an additional instrument. their songs are full of overdubs and all manner of "studio sweetening". their tracks were most definitely NOT "live to tape with no overdubs".

so are Walter, Donald and company not great musicians? or does their use of the studio as a tool make them EVEN BETTER musicians? something to ponder.

of course, i've got a live steely dan show from 3.20.74 (pre-pretzel logic) that shows just how great they are "live to tape".....but still, my question remains.

but we're on the same page, nubs ole buddy--i have no use for these musicians who have to rely on a crutch to make them into something they're otherwise not.


cheers,
wade
 
ndycus1 said:
Personally, I think that a huge aspect of the engineer's job is to make the artist sound better than they actually are.

that's debatable, and it depends on the engineer. certainly some set out to make things sound "better than they are"......and some set out to capture the sound "as it is" (steve albini comes to mind here).

these are very fundamental philosophical decisions, and are usually determined by the record company and/or the producer.

howver, it's obvious in today's music industry, that image is what sells. it's not skill. 38 Special, Lynyrd Skynyrd, the Doobie Brothers and The Allman Brothers would never get signed in today's industry--they're all ugly lookin guys with long greasy hair and bad teeth. :D they made their mark based on the fact that they all can *play* and that they write great songs--not b/c they look good in a video.

Conversely, Shania Twain, Kenny Chesney or Carrie OutofTune would never have been signed in the Patsy Cline days.....none of them could sing live in a room without "help", and none of them could write a song to save their lives. in the pre-autotune and DAW days, those things were paramount.

but Shania, Kenny and Carrie are all attractive people--and what country girl isn't going to turn on CMT and see a buff, shirtless kenny and not want to consume more of that product? who cares if he can't sing his way out of a bag--we can fix that now in the DAW. and who cares if he can't string 3 words together in a sentence? we have plenty of writers to pen songs for him. but NO ONE wants to see Gregg Allman shirtless, and he's a phenomenal vocalist (among other things). ;)

Video did, in fact, kill the radio star.

once it became about how you looked on TV, it stopped being about how you sounded on the radio (b/c we can fix that however we want).


cheers,
wade

PS--the irony in all of this is that the excellent songwriters in nashville are the people you don't see on TV.....largely b/c they don't have the image that sells records. Rodney Crowell comes to mind here.....
 
ndycus1 said:
Personally, I don't think that using AutoTune to help better a singer with imperfect pitch is much (if any) different than using compression to help better a singer with poor dynamic control or using EQ to help a singer with imperfect tone.

I question the tastes of anybody who thinks that Autotune makes anything sound better. I agree that it's like drinking a diet soda. It kind of seems like a real soda, but leaves a really horrible aftertaste.

Apparantly some actually like that aftertaste. Personally, I don't get it.
 
So, tell me, y'all - what is the tip-off that autotune is being used? I'm an old-school kind of guy and it never had occured to me that people would use it for anything other than a quick one-note fix. (OK, I'm hopelessly naive, sue me. :D )

What are the sonic characteristics - what happens to the voice?
 
Zaphod B said:
So, tell me, y'all - what is the tip-off that autotune is being used? I'm an old-school kind of guy and it never had occured to me that people would use it for anything other than a quick one-note fix. (OK, I'm hopelessly naive, sue me. :D )

What are the sonic characteristics - what happens to the voice?
A common artifact is a "fluty" quality to a note...

BTW: Check out recent Red Hot Chili Peppers stuff, for one of the worst offenders.
 
If you listen to any of Loretta Lynn's latest studio recordings the effect is extremely obvious. Her voice is not what it was when she was young. We shouldn't expect it to be. The tune she did with Jack White (I can't remember the name of the song) is an atrocious example. When you hear it so obviously applied, it is unmistakable. And sad.
 
Thanks, I'll give it a listen.

Loretta Lynn should be a giveaway, since she never was particularly accurate (talk about an understatement!).
 
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