Need Some Helpful Ears on This Mix

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lemonymous

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Hi, my name is Ender. I'm a solo artist from Upstate New York.

I've been recording with Cool Edit Pro on my own for nearly five years now, and while I believe I'm getting better at recording and mixing and... well... the whole producing/engineering bit, I realize I've come as far as I can on my own without any help (I've basicly been experimenting on my own for five years). The result is 2 albums and an EP, another album this year and another hopefully at the end of the year.

I've decided I want to invest in a home recording studio. I'm not too concerned about the equipment right now. What I want to know is that I'm coming along fine enough engineering wise to be able to warrant it.

I submit to you all this tune -
- called "Vampire". As always, I've recorded and played all the parts on my own. This is for the album I intend to release by the end of the year.

What you hear is a mixed down and mastered version of the song. Although it's better than what I've done in the past, production wise, I don't feel it's good enough. The low end feels muddy, like the bass is getting in the way of something, and I don't feel the whole power of the tune. I think it's also possible I may have overdone it on the percussion reverb.

I'm submitting this song to all of you because I need the help. My ears can hear alright, and I can hear that all is not well in this mix, but although I think I'm getting better, and there are some fundamentals of EQ and limiting and all that I do understand, I have a hard time applying them. In addition, it's hard to know what to do with my own tunes simply from reading books. If anyone has any advice on what I can do to this song to clean it up please let me know.

I use CEP v1.2 I believe, which is what I've used for a long time. I'm using Cubase to put together my drums and then I'm using my yamaha keyboard as the MIDI soundcard, which sends the audio to CEP for editing.

If you want to comment on the song itself, you know, whether you like it or not, that's fine, but at this time I'm not concerned with that. What I'm concerned about is how I can make this sound better at this point, how I can clear up what I feel is mud in some places, and how I can really pull the separate parts out of the mix better than I have now.

I would love any help anyone can give me.

Thanks,
Ender
www.enderhq.com
ender@enderhq.com
AIM: Lemonymous
 
I think the base guitar tones need some work. Too crunchy, too much upper-mids.

Drums are a little too soft sounding.

Hard pan on the distorted guitar on the left side is a bit TOO far panned. Unbalances the mix.

IMHO the Cool Edit Pro plugins *SUCK* beyond all belief. Find some freeware compressors, eq's and so on. You can find some great ones. I highly recommend one by DigitalFishPhones called BLOCKFISH. The optic mode absolutely kills.

I think the recording is good, except for the distorted guitar (too buzzy, too distorted, too crusty sounding), but the mix isn't up to par with your recording skills.

That being said, this is one of the stronger songs I've heard here and your vocals are excellent. Good hooks and song arrangement. A+!!!!
 
Oh that's great! Thank you! Just what I was looking for. I've pretty much botched the drums, so I'll probably get a program that makes better sounding sequences for that and redo them.

As for the bass... blah. I so blow at it. What would you suggest for EQ on recording the bass, and then, once in the mix, what are the most important frequencies to turn down and up?

Also, are the guitars fubared or is there something I can do to fix them a bit? What frequencies would you suggest mucking around with?

I appreciate your help! You've been extremely gracious!

Ender
www.enderhq.com
ender@enderhq.com
AIM: Lemonymous
 
One thing i can find that would also add some dynamics in the tune is pan your backup vocals like 15-20 left or right and leave your main vocal still, to pic what way is somewhat up to you, all about what you want to project as the tune. if you are dead set on not adding pan to them i would bring the volume down a bit on them.
 
I usually do pan them that way. It might be because of the mid-tone-ness of my voice that it doesn't really separate well. I'm not sure.

What really is frustrating is that I know I'm getting better, I just appear to be missing some really key deals that I'm not having much luck getting my head around.

As for the guitar parts mentioned earlier - I actually hard limited and compressed everything separately in the mix first. EXCEPT for vocals, which were only compressed, and the guitars, which were all only hard limited.

My assumption is that this is a bad idea, as I then hardlimited when I mastered.

Anyway, I think it's clear I need a lot more work and I'm extremely confused about what I'm doing wrong. One of these days I need someone to sit down with me and help me fix some of this stuff right in front of me so I know what I'm doing. I get the jargon and the whys and all that, I just can't apply it for some reason.

Ender
 
Thats funny, I need the same thing sometimes, I think alot of the guys hit it right on the head here when they say that you always learning, even vets like Bear and Massive will tell you Im sure that they learn or are forced to learn new Techniques and approaches every time they record. Btw if you find someone to come sit with you, I want to borrow him/her.my mind is a sponge.
 
I'm just really frustrated because I should be much farther along than I am now. I have the tunes. Boy, do I have the tunes. I swear if the right person heard them...

But recording the tunes and making them sound GREAT has been the hard part. Sometimes I get lucky and they do actually sound great, but it's very few and far between.

Ender
 
I understand feeling behind, but people love the underdog.

I worked with Dave Fortman with recording and mixing, He is better know for producing Evanescence, well he was also the guitarest for Ugly Kid Joe. lol

But even working Direcly with him, and learn alot of his " ways of going about stuff " Its never enuf, I also feel like i am far behind myequipments abilitys, matter of fact i know i am, the console I have now ( My AmeK TAC magnum ) was Daves and i witnessed first hand what he could do with it. and to hear his outcome and mine is sometimes depressing. but i keep my chin up, I know i can call him with problems I have and there are a few guys on here that really know their stuff.

Just keep absorbing man, no one will ever be as good as they wish to be, and if somone feels they are as good as they want to be, well they have lost the want.
 
You're definitely onto something here. The song is great and the production isn't that bad, really. There is a muffled sound over the whole thing that would probably fix itself with a few better mics and a better set of plugins.

If you're looking at putting some money into your recording setup, pick up Cubase, a decent soundcard (maybe M-audio or Motu interface), 5-6 nice mics, and 2-3 great plugins for EQ and compression. It'll cost a few thousand bucks, but if you're serious about what you're doing, it'll be so worth it.

Renting might be worth it for you if you're not looking to start a recording studio. You could rent all the nice equipment for doing your drums, then track them all in a month. Then, rent a really really nice preamp and mic to do all your overdubs. $500-800 would probably cover all the rental fees for 2 months.

Mix with the intent of sending your recordings to a mastering studio for the mastering. It'll make a huge difference.

Overall though, you're doing some pretty great things with what you have. Most people totally overlook the fact that all the gear in the world can't write great songs. You've got the talent, just not the gear. Unfortunately, that's the expensive part. :)
 
Thank You! That means a lot to me!

I'm actually going to be getting a new, more powerful computer, a nice MXL condensor mic (for cheap), and the new Firewire Alesis board that is coming out in April to start. I already have two guitars and a bass, and a Line 6 Pod XT, which does everything for me. I even can run vocals and bass through that but haven't had the chance to yet.

I use Cool Edit Pro, mainly because that's what I used and had access to when I ran a music lab. I wouldn't mind using another program, except I don't have the money (then again there IS Kazaa....) and I'm afraid of having to start from scratch in learning a new program.

Nonetheless, I think I have a decent amount of the technology. Definitely the tunes. Unfortunately, I think I'm just not right on top of the whole mixing issue. And I definitely want to be able to master tracks on my own eventually.

It's good to know at least that the mix isn't THAT bad. :) If anyone has any suggestions or answers based on my second post up at the top there, I would be more than happy!!!!

Ender

PS: if anyone is interested in more tunes, let me know.
 
Speaking of drums and stuff, can someone give me an idea of a great drum sequencer I could get? I want something with GREAT drums sounds, but that I can be absolutely detailed with in notation like I can with the sequencing in Cubase. I've heard of Battery by Native Instruments and Groove Agent by Cubase. Would anyone suggest these? Keep the song above, with all its changes, in mind.

Ender
 
Personally I would re-track the guitars, preferabbly through a Fender Reverb amp and a strat. I just hear that sound for this song.

Less distortion too... some grit, but organic grit. Maybe run a Boss Blues Driver in front of it.
 
Oh no! I dont want to redo the guitars!!! ARGGGGGHHH!!! :)

I use a Line 6 Pod XT so I'll try some other sounds and see what's good. What do you suggest for EQ on that puppy? And should I refrain from any compression or limiting on the guitar?

I'm going to keep the lead lines in though if that's alright.

Anyone have any suggestions on the questions about drums?

And on eqing bass guitar.... GAH!!!! That gets me more than anything. Ever. Any suggs?

Ender
 
I like the sound of the vocals but thats all. Just not enough energy in the mix. Use real instruments please. mic the drum kit, mic the good guitar amp. DI the bass, but use a decent bass. Get your panning sorted. Panning aint the hard part. If you cant get panning right on speakers start on headphones then go back to your speakers to finish off the panning.
 
I don't have real drums. Unfortunately, nor do I have the ability to mic them. I use the POD for my guitar, which i'll continue to use. The bass is tricky... I don't know what you mean by a DI.

Ender
 
Its just a way of getting a balanced signal (no noise interference) into the desk without micing up a bass amp. Your line comes from your bass guitar into a wee box called DI and then comes out as an XLR cable that goes into your pre amp. You can insert an amp in the chain to get characteristics of the amp in your recording, which i would say is alot better than just DIing on its own.
 
I went ahead and redid the bass and guitars. I think the bass sounds great now. I just need some better drums. The guitars still need some work. As for vocals, I copied and added light chorus to the main vocal and panned it to the side. I'll drop you the update soon as I can.

Ender
 
- The Second Take.

- To be referenced with the past one at the beginning of the post.

Let me know if this is better, worse... what IS better, or worse etc...

Thanks again all!!!! You've been mighty helpful!!!!

Ender
 
If anyone could comment on that last post i'd truly appreciate it.

Ender
 
I've got Steinberg's Groove Agent and am thrilled with it. I compose a drum track I like, record the midi notes, then route the midi to a giga computer loaded with Drums From Hell. There's nothing wrong with the Groove Agent internal drum sounds; I just like ther flexibility.

If you wait a little while you can pick up the next generation - Groove Agent 2. It's supposed to be released this month.
 
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