Need Practical Advise On Monitors Please...

[Harvey Gerst]

I would agree that the woofer is required to play rather high in most situations, but doesn't most vocal performance start at 80Hz and end before the average xover point. It's usually rather safe to expect the critical vocal range to be handled well by a two way (assuming xover points average 2k). Many designers put most of the harmonics out of the region of the crossover point, and nulls.

Actually, the vocals really start a couple of octaves higher than 80 Hz. Almost all near-field monitors are a big compromise. Expecting a woofer to handle vocals while that vocal signal is riding on a speaker cone that's busy pumping out bass and kick drum at the same time is a bit unrealistic. Most pros use 3-ways for that exact reason. But even then, most speaker companies don't get it right.

I can't comment much more on this subject right now, since, as they say,"Ive got a horse in this race". After the AES show next week, I'll be at able to talk about monitors more freely.

 

[dintymoore]

Congrats Alex on your speakers. If mine blew I'd insist on getting another pair. Just the fact that I saw Bernie Grundman's using them sells me.

oops! mini hijack:

Dinty, have you seen this?
http://www.siteswithstyle.com/VoltSecond/K-12M_AMP/K-12M_Push_Pull.html

Yes, thanks that is a good site. I haven't done any mods on mine but maybe in the future.

One time mine blew a resistor. I phoned the place and talked to an old timer. He had the schematic in his head and told me what part to buy at Radio Shack. I fixed it for $2. Try that with your Hafler!

Here it is (I made the case, the top is a stationary thing to put letters in):

In the rack:

The top device in the rack was the "Frankenstein" speaker selector (you can see him on the right of it) with all knife switches. That was a fun unit. It's been replaced with a newer homemade unit.

What amazed me about it was a) it didn't roll the top off, it goes to 20KHz and b) it isn't noisy like I thought it might be.

 

[xyrium]

Actually, the vocals really start a couple of octaves higher than 80 Hz. Almost all near-field monitors are a big compromise. Expecting a woofer to handle vocals while that vocal signal is riding on a speaker cone that's busy pumping out bass and kick drum at the same time is a bit unrealistic. Most pros use 3-ways for that exact reason. But even then, most speaker companies don't get it right.

I can't comment much more on this subject right now, since, as they say,"Ive got a horse in this race". After the AES show next week, I'll be at able to talk about monitors more freely.

I certainly agree with you there. I started another thread about time domain/group delay issues with ported (bass reflex primarily) designs, wondering if acoustic suspension designs are truly superior at reducing the amount of distortion because of the terrible requirements of the two drivers in a two way design. Have fun at the AES, I hope you can comment on that thread when yuo return now that I've hijacked this thread.

 

[xyrium]

oops! mini hijack:

Yes, thanks that is a good site. I haven't done any mods on mine but maybe in the future.

One time mine blew a resistor. I phoned the place and talked to an old timer. He had the schematic in his head and told me what part to buy at Radio Shack. I fixed it for $2. Try that with your Hafler!

Here it is (I made the case, the top is a stationary thing to put letters in):
The top device in the rack was the "Frankenstein" speaker selector (you can see him on the right of it) with all knife switches. That was a fun unit. It's been replaced with a newer homemade unit.

What amazed me about it was a) it didn't roll the top off, it goes to 20KHz and b) it isn't noisy like I thought it might be.

That speaker selector is fantastic actually. Nothing like home brewed stuff. You just won't get the quality components in mass produced items. Nice work on the amp as well. It's interesting to see a classic device sitting with all digital gear.

 

[dintymoore]

That speaker selector is fantastic actually. Nothing like home brewed stuff. You just won't get the quality components in mass produced items. Nice work on the amp as well. It's interesting to see a classic device sitting with all digital gear.

Thanks very much... I wanted to make the Frankenstein unit with massive wall switches! The Frankenstein was very nice to work with and if you need a speaker selector this will get you there for $20.

I have since made a better speaker selector that I love and a volume controller splitter control box (wrongly called a passive preamp - preamp what?) that I couldn't live without.

Eventually I hope to have little or no electronic gear visible in my studio, just a carved wooden desk with huge knobs labeled things like "music", "balls" and "vox" and I will mix in those broad terms.

Seat belts required!

 

[darrin_h2000]

Nice find! Be careful installing non-OEM (original) tweeters if that's what you choose to do. Some xovers are designed to manage the OEM stuff ideally, and may not work as well with other drop in (physically) replacements. You may want to consider replacing the pair of tweets for uniformity. I like that suggestion of a tube amp. Don't shy away from them due to the low power rating, you can't rate tubes like solid state/transistors. Good luck though, and happy mixing!

Edit: Yikes, are these prices common? http://www.allproelectronics.com/Yamaha-NS10M-Parts-s/17.htm

Cool link...I thought that the woofers were irreplacable.

The irony is that some of the blown speaker problems are from using underpowered amps allowed to distort rather than overpowering them.

I power mine with a Phase Linear Model 400a I bought at a garage sale for $20 the same model amp that was used to mix "Dark side of the Moon"

 

[xyrium]

The irony is that some of the blown speaker problems are from using underpowered amps allowed to distort rather than overpowering them.

I power mine with a Phase Linear Model 400a I bought at a garage sale for $20 the same model amp that was used to mix "Dark side of the Moon"

I couldn't agree more. More power is better than less. Especially since distortion ratings are at full power, why push the gain that hard? It just sucks that you need to double your power output just to gain 3dB of headroom.

Wow, nice. I dream of the day when I achieve one of those "finds" at a garage sale. Any time I drive past one, or an estate sale, I always wonder what goodies might lurk!

 

[xyrium]

Thanks very much... I wanted to make the Frankenstein unit with massive wall switches! The Frankenstein was very nice to work with and if you need a speaker selector this will get you there for $20.

I have since made a better speaker selector that I love and a volume controller splitter control box (wrongly called a passive preamp - preamp what?) that I couldn't live without.

Eventually I hope to have little or no electronic gear visible in my studio, just a carved wooden desk with huge knobs labeled things like "music", "balls" and "vox" and I will mix in those broad terms.

Seat belts required!

Sounds like an active DI box is in your future, just for giggles...

I suppose if more and more people begin mixing entirely in digital (direct instrument input) you can have settings for those items. I would be especially impressed with the "balls" setting, as I have the feeling it may involve some 20Hz fundamentals.