Need mics for live "harsh" trumpet and sax

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Brackish

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Looking for something to mellow and smooth
out the harshness. Right now using a handheld
vocal mic with the result being very harsh.
What are some good options to consider?
(I would consider a directional ribbon but
that's not in the budget.) Thinking maybe
some handheld dynamic, or maybe a dynamic
instrument mic, perhaps.
 
SM7

MD441

Ribbon

In random order and I'll tell you why: because Trumpetman loves the SM7 which I don't own. The MD441 is one of the smoothest sounding dynamics. And all ribbons sound creamy.

A Beyer M201 isn't bad either on horns and winds.
 
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Brackish said:
Really prefer a handheld mic. Any ideas
for handheld?
Click to expand...

My first thought in the more affordable range than MD441 was the M201, which is also handholdable and comes with a foam windscreen, but if you want a true handheld mic, the M88 or M69 would do, as budget allows.
 
mshilarious said:
... but if you want a true handheld mic, the M88 or M69 would do, as budget allows.
Click to expand...


You're referring to the TG models?
 
mshilarious said:
My first thought in the more affordable range than MD441 was the M201, which is also handholdable and comes with a foam windscreen, but if you want a true handheld mic, the M88 or M69 would do, as budget allows.
Click to expand...


The M88 is a very great mic, but a little too bright for trumpets, the M69 is a whole different cat, not by far as good as the M88.

Use the M88 for vocals, cabs, kick, floor, upright bass and lots of other applications and it will shine, but not on horns IMHO.

The MD441 otoh sucks on upright bass when put in the bridge (foam), but it'll shine on horns and winds.

It's a matter of the right mic for the right application.
 
Brackish said:
You're referring to the TG models?
Click to expand...

Yes. But given the choice I'd take the M201 over the M69, it's good for just about everything, at least as much as a single mic can be.
 
It is hard, given your preference for a handheld mic, to give much of a recommendation. I really would recommend one of the inexpensive ribbons and a mic stand.
 
Innovations said:
It is hard, given your preference for a handheld mic, to give much of a recommendation. I really would recommend one of the inexpensive ribbons and a mic stand.
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Agreed. Handheld and trumpet just don't mix. Part of the reason that it's harsh is because you have this small metal ball grille....

Anyway, whatever you use, make sure you don't point the bell of the trumpet directly at the mic. That makes harshness worse. :)

http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_brass_tactics/
 
dgatwood said:
Agreed. Handheld and trumpet just don't mix. Part of the reason that it's harsh is because you have this small metal ball grille....
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True, what trumpet player would want to hold a mic while playing anyways?????


;)
 
Actually, I find that SM58s work better on trumpet and sax than they do on vox.

But given the choice, I'd go with the MD421.
 
I havent used them, but how about one of the new new smaller EV mics, the Blue Raven and Cardinal?
Blue Raven is a cardioid dynamic and website shows it to be useable for both brass and winds.
If it was in your budget, the ($1249) sE Electronics Titan would do the job you are asking for without question. :cool:
 
Brackish said:
Really prefer a handheld mic. Any ideas
for handheld?
Click to expand...
On the face of it, that's a really strange statement. Care to explain?
 
One of my concerns with using a figure-8
ribbon (which I've never used before) is
that the back side will pick up crowd
noise and I'm looking for isolation.
Or is this concern unfounded because the
gain will be down so low due to the loud
trumpet that no crowd noise will be picked
up?
 
markitzero said:
Actually, I find that SM58s work better on trumpet and sax than they do on vox.

But given the choice, I'd go with the MD421.
Click to expand...

My vote as well. I recorded a 3 piece brass section using 3 MD421's, and man it was KILLER sounding. I got a few props from some guys on here when i did it because they were totally suprised that we were doing what one called something like "psyhco-klezmer" Hahaha

(My brother is way into John Zorn and stuff like that, so we were always experimenting with different sounds.)



Tim
 
For brass, 421's are excellent mics on stage. Someone above reccomended the SE Titan. I would avoid this like the plague if you are using it for live brass applications. In a live setting, musicians nedd to play pretty close to the mic. My guess is that a bari sax or a trumpet would probably blow a diaphragm pretty quickly at 4 inches away. Dealing with the bleed you get from other instruments would probably make the mic far less usable than a standard 57. Another mic that is handheld that would work well is an EV 7x7 (747, 757, 767). They all have a kind of veiled slightly muffled top end that would make the mic suitable for brass. I also love the way the EV 408's sound on brass. In general, in a live setting, whatever mic you would put on a rack tom usually fits the bill for brass as well.
 
xstatic said:
Someone above reccomended the SE Titan. I would avoid this like the plague if you are using it for live brass applications. In a live setting, musicians nedd to play pretty close to the mic. My guess is that a bari sax or a trumpet would probably blow a diaphragm pretty quickly at 4 inches away.
Click to expand...

The idea that condensers will be damaged by high SPL's is a bit of an "urban myth". There are some really good reasons not to drag condensers to your gigs. Yes, it is a risk they will get damaged - but it won't be because of loud horns.

The damage will more likely come from:

Bumping into it
Dropping it on the floor
Blowing cigarette smoke into it
Spilling a drink on it
Subjecting it to high humidity

All of which are good enough reasons to use a dynamic mic instead on live gigs.
 
It was not spl that I was referring to, but extreme blasts of wind. I understand that ribbons are certainly more sensitive to this, but the possibility certainly exists. With brass playing so close to an LD condesnor, there is a good chance of overloading the mics circuitry and getting a pretty ugly signal as well.

Even without those possibilities though, the logistics of creating a monitor mix with a mic like that and the extreme bleed from other band members still means leave the mic at home. That is of course assuming some sort of a loud band. With a good laid back band, it could be very usable, and even backed off on.
 
xstatic said:
Someone above reccomended the SE Titan. I would avoid this like the plague if you are using it for live brass applications.
Click to expand...
I recommended the Titan above. I wouldnt recommend the Titan for live either but definitely in a studio environment. When I played circuses and ice shows (back when they hired live musicians) they used PZM's that were attached to round pieces of plexiglass, one for each horn player, saxes, t-bones, and trumpets all. The pick-up was incredible as well as controllable. We played right into them, relatively close. If it worked for Ringling Brothers and the Ice Capades it might be worth a try or at least consideration. The plexiglass surface made it easy to pull off what was left of your chops after each show :D .
 
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