Need help with building computer

[KeithT]

Hi! Just joined as member. I have been reading the posts in here and they have been extremely helpful so far. I can't wait til I hear from some of you to help me address my challenges...

I am relatively new at recording. I have done some already with my existing gear:

Pentium 2 CPU 450Mhz, 384 RAM, Win 98, Homestudio 2002
Audiophile 2496
"Mixer" - 4 channel Multitrack Cassette Recorder (Yamaha)
"Monitor" - Sony mini hi-fi

Instruments:
Yamaha grand piano 6 foot (miked by 2 SM57s)
Keyboard - Roland JV 90
Vocal - SM58


I am ready to take the next step. As you can see, my primary instrument is the keyboard. I'm a very keyboard person who sings decently well (so I overlay oohs and ahhs to back up myself). But my computer is unable to keep up with the 25 or more tracks of MIDI and audio (I also play my own drum and percussion parts). And I want to use soft synths and samples to increase synth capability without having to buy an actual keyboard (they are very costly).

I'm thinking I should build my own computer. What components should I get? (I'd like to stick with PC, and preferably, Cakewalk - probably move up to Sonar 3)

Thanks for your opinions!

 

[Simman]

Welcome

Do you have a budget??? Well here goes

If possible go with a XENON processor (~3GHz) and at least 1Gig (more is better in this area) of RAM. This will set you back more than a standard P4 but it will yield better performance since they are design for the workstation environment. I’m not sure if any recording software truly takes full advantage of multi-processors but, if you have the funds to get a dual process motherboard, you could always add another processor later (if CPU power becomes an issue).

Get the BIGGEST power supply (most wattage) you can get in the chassis (this is an area that most take for granted) and redundant supplies, if possible! Get yourself an UPS for those unexpected power outages; it will pay for itself the 1st time your recording and the power goes out!

Do a little research and get a hard disk that has the fastest seek/read/write times you can get. IDE drives are readily available with specs that rival SCSI performance at a much lower cost.

If you’ve gotten this far, get yourself a flat panel monitor; they take up far less room! Lastly, get yourself a really good sound card!

 

[KeithT]

I'm hoping to come in less than US$1200 for the computer. Do you think the Audiophile 2496 is insufficient as a sound card?

"IDE drives are readily available with specs that rival SCSI performance at a much lower cost." What does this mean? I'm sorry I'm quite so ignorant.

Thanks for the word about power supply and the Xenon.

Is there a site that I can go to learn about the essentials of building my own computer for dedicated audio use?

 

[wheelema]

Re: Welcome

If possible go with a XENON processor (~3GHz) and at least 1Gig (more is better in this area) of RAM. This will set you back more than a standard P4 but it will yield better performance since they are design for the workstation environment.

Actually, no, the XEON processors (Xenon is a gas) are marketed to the server market, and are overkill for a desktop application. A 800mhz P4 processor is the best bet as it has the greatest compatibility, the AthlonXP processors are a good bet if you're on a budget as they have become cheap cheap cheap since AMD released their latest and greatest line of 64bit processors. Also, most people would be of the opinion that while 1GB of RAM is very nice (and really affordable now!), 512MB is fine. Just don't go lower.

Originally posted by Simman
Get the BIGGEST power supply (most wattage) you can get in the chassis (this is an area that most take for granted) and redundant supplies, if possible!

Uh... no. The power supply had to be large when you are packing a bunch of PCI cards into a server (e.g., a CITRIX application server), but with today's highly integrated motherboards packing a large power supply into a desktop is somewhat like packing a V12 into a Yugo, and redundent power supplies, while a nice warm fuzzy for the network guys at work, is a pricey inconsequential for anyone else.

Originally posted by Simman
Get yourself an UPS for those unexpected power outages; it will pay for itself the 1st time your recording and the power goes out!

Simman is absolutely right. Do not skimp on this. A good UPS will also provide surge protection.

Originally posted by Simman
Do a little research and get a hard disk that has the fastest seek/read/write times you can get. IDE drives are readily available with specs that rival SCSI performance at a much lower cost.

Simman is absolutely right. SCSI is a dying technology, SATA (Serial ATA) appears to be the future. The fastest HDD that I am aware of is a Western Digital (only 32GB) with a 8MB cache that runs at 10,000rpm. You can be sure that more are coming.

The best advice I can give is to watch out for the advice you get on this board and take it with a grain of salt... there are seasoned professionals, and then there are, uh, somewhat less than seasoned professionals.

The Audiophile 2496 is an excellent sound card. Mind you, there are number out there now that are, by popular decree, better. Look at the RME Hammerfall Light

To build a dedicated audio PC requires only that you (A) have the fastest processor you can afford, that you have (B) no less than 512MB RAM, a (C) fast hard drive (7,200rpm), and (D) the interfaces that you need to hook up (Firewire, USB 2.0, etc.)

Luck!

 

[wheelema]

Well, just got back from watching The Transporter on HBO. Glad I didn't rent that one!

I am not aware of any online resources to help you build your own PC. This is not to say that they do not exist, I just don't have the need and don't want to take the time to search them out.

However, I love to spec these things out, so here you go...

Start at NewEgg or Multiwave (I prefer the later but YMMV).

Start with the motherboard as the kind of motherboard you select will determine the case you will need. With $1,200 in the kitty a Intel processor is well within your reach. This is one from Multiwave:

ASUS P4C800-E LDX; PENTIUM 4 3.0G; MWAVE 512MB DDR400; ASSEMBLE/TEST BUNDLE $559.49

This motherboard comes with the memory and processor installed and tested. As you may see, it is running a 800mhz FSB 3ghz P4 processor with 512mb of RAM. It is also an ATX motherboard, so you will need an ATX case:

CODEGEN 6083-1 MIDDLE TOWER W/350W (PENTIUM 4 READY) ATX POWER SUPPLY 4x5.25" 1x3.5" 2x3.5"(hidden) W/ FRONT USB CONNECTOR (80mm FAN(BLACK)) $38.50 (includes an extra fan... you can never be too cool!)

Toss on a video adapter... nothing too fancy.

ASUS V9180-MAGIC GEFORCE4 64MB 8XAGP NVIDIA MX-440 DDR W/TV OUT(Retail) $55.00

Now pack on the storage... you know. CDRW, DVD, HDD (that's Hard Disk Drive), and FDD (if you want a floppy)

WD 120GB 1200JD SERIAL ATA150 7200RPM 8MB BUFFER HARD DRIVE (Bare drive ) $119.00

WD 36GB 360GD SERIAL ATA 150 10,000RPM 8MB BUFFER HARD DRIVE (Bare drive ) $109.00

LITE ON 48X/24X/48X CDRW +16X DVD EIDE INTERNAL COMBO DRIVE LTC48161 W/NERO SW (Retail) $51.00

TEAC 1.44MB FLOPPY DRIVE (Bare Drive) $10.50

a keyboard and a mouse...

MICROSOFT NATURAL MULTIMEDIA OPTICAL VALUE PACK- KEYBOARD & MOUSE (DSP) $29.00

... and last but not least, a copy of WindowsXP Professional...

Microsoft Windows XP Professional w/sp1 (DSP/OEM) $134.00

Now, at this point, sans tax and shipping, you have spent $1,105.49. You can find a 17" display for $95, or you can dig a little deeper and get this:

AOPEN 17" F75PS 1280X1024 ULTRA SLIM SLIM MONITOR (SILVER) W/3 YEAR MANUFACTURER WARRANTY $345.00

Total system cost with WinXP Pro and LCD display... $1,450.49 sans tax and shipping.

A few notes about this system....
This is a totally custom system that can be tweaked as you see fit. The motherboard, for example, is the creme de la creme of ASUS motherboards. Check out the specs! There are many motherboards by ASUS that are far cheaper. I would, however, recommend that you stick with ASUS until you become a PC guru.
This system has two very pricey HDD, a 7,200rpm 120GB SATA drive for your OS and applications, and a 10,000rpm 36GB SATA drive for your music. There are much cheaper drives. For example, a 7,200rpm 80GB Ultra-ATA with 8mb of cache can be had for less than seventy bucks.
This system is spec'd out with WinXP Pro. WinXP Home is cheaper, and Win98 is cheaper still.

And if you REALLY want to save money go with AMD.

Hope this helps. Lord bless.

 

[wheelema]

And by the way, do not forget the signal cables for the disk drives. Your two HDD will use one cable (your boot drive will be the master, the music drive the slave), your CDRW will use one, and your FDD will use one.

 

[Simman]

Re: Re: Welcome

Actually, no, the XEON processors (Xenon is a gas) are marketed to the server market, and are overkill for a desktop application.


No....actually the XEON processor is not only marketed to the server community but to the high-end workstations as well!

 

[wheelema]

Simman,

One of the recurring threads that I have run across in browsing manufacturer's marketing blurbs is how the digital signal processors (DSPs) used offload tasks from the processor. For example:

RME Audio Hammerfall Light
ASIO poured in hardware! The result in speed and performance is 0 (zero!)% CPU load when using ALL 36 channels!

or

MOTU 2408MK3
For the computer-based studio, the included PCI-424 card features CueMix DSP™, a flexible DSP-driven mixing and monitoring matrix that eliminates the need for an external mixer or patch-bay. Connect all of your studio gear, including synths, keyboards, and even effects processors. Then control it all from your desktop with no audible monitoring latency and no processor drain on your computer

I have no interest in getting into a pissing contest as to which processor benchmarks higher. The truth is that a 800mhz FSB P4 is overkill.

Personally, I would economize on the DAW to bulk up on other toys, but that is just me.

 

[distortedrumble]

and whats behind door #3 Johnny!?

800 mhz is almost non existant anymore...i have a 900mhz duron(overclocked to 1.1 ghz and kept kicking through a counter-strike lan party) I'd give you for free. a 1.7 ghz celeron is 70 bucks or so or you can get a 2.4 ghz celeron 400 fsb for 110 or around that area. it'll do the trick also.... i do agree with getting a large power supply and and maxing out on ddr ram. a 64 or 128mb video card and keep the audiophile and that should be game....you can combine more than one audiophile sound card right? if so and can go up 3 more cards and keep the monitor, keyboard and mouse and your still not at 1200...maybe somewhere around 500 or 600.

 

[KeithT]

Wow, this is excellent info, guys! I'd love to have other opinions about the computer, so keep 'em comin'. Of course, I'd rather spend less on the computer if possible, and yes, acquire "other toys."

I'm still trying to get my head around all the terms used. This will take a little time...

 

[wheelema]

Re: and whats behind door #3 Johnny!?

800 mhz is almost non existant anymore...

Distorted,

The '800mhz' refers to the speed of the front side bus (FSB), not the speed of the Intel P4 processor, which at this time top out at the obscene speed of 3.2 gigahertz. The 800mhz FSB P4 processors are the fastest standalone Intel processors extant, the XEON processors (which top out at 533mhz FSB) not withstanding.

 

[distortedrumble]

OOOOOOOH OOOK!

my bad i thought you were talking about processor speed and i was sitting here thinking....i know that cant be right.... ok yes 800mhz fsb is definitely a USDA Grade A angus beef....I'm happy with my 1.7 ghz celeron. i cant afford the 3 ghz and even if i could i probably wouldnt get it though. thats a serious bit of money for me to make my own recordings with....however if i was being paid by bands to record their crap then i would probably get it but chances are I'd spend it on something like.....beer.

 

[wheelema]

Amen. Beer works for me.

 

[Simman]

Personally, I would economize on the DAW to bulk up on other toys, but that is just me.

Same here! Although I do use a DAW for editing, I do little "recording" on it. I too would rather spend more on the other toys.

 

[KeithT]

If you don't do much recording on the DAW, what do you record on?

 

[Simman]

HD24

 

[Simman]

If you don't do much recording on the DAW, what do you record on?

Let me elaborate on my statement a little . I record on an Alesis HD-24 ADAT and use our DWA to record additional tracks (over 24) if necessary. Prior to getting the ADAT we (jointly owned studio) used to record on the PC running Samplitude. Our PC is relegated to mostly editing but is the “deck” we do our final mix downs to. However,we are currently looking into a MasterLink for mixing down to.