Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

[fetuslasvegas]

So, Studio Claus dropped these off for me last week!!

I have two packages @ 15 sheets a package and the dimensions are ~16" x 48" x 2"

The room I'm treating is ~14'L x ~8'W x 9'H

I figured
4 bass traps (1 in each corner) @ 48"h x 16"w x 6"d (4" filled)
2 first reflection panels @ 32"h x 24"w x 3"d (2" filled)
2 back wall panels @ 24"h x 16"w x 3"d (2" filled)
1 ceiling panel above listening position @ 16"l x 48"w x 2"d

Does this sound appropriate? Overkill? Other details of the room, all wood floor and plaster/drywall walls and ceilings.

Also, what is the best way to figure out the placement for my back wall panels.

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

 

[GIK Acoustics]

Do you have the option to add any more at all? Unfortunately, 16" wide panels won't be amazing in the corners - not nearly as helpful as 24" wide absorbers. I think the plan you got is good, but won't do a ton of work below ~200 Hz (it will still be helpful). Not really overkill at all IMO.

 

[fetuslasvegas]

Do you have the option to add any more at all? Unfortunately, 16" wide panels won't be amazing in the corners - not nearly as helpful as 24" wide absorbers. I think the plan you got is good, but won't do a ton of work below ~200 Hz (it will still be helpful). Not really overkill at all IMO.

Please tell me what would be ideal, I am looking for guidance. Please do keep in mind the size of the room... I can do whatever I want, so I would like to have the most ideal setup. Also, any suggestions on the wood to use for the framing to keep it light?

 

[RAMI]

Also, any suggestions on the wood to use for the framing to keep it light?

I'll let others help you with the other questions, but I will help you with this one.

Any wood will do. Thin ply wood, etc.... The idea isn't to "frame" the material, but to use the wood as a backing for the material. Rapping it in fabric will hold it in place. So, even though you're building a "frame" with the wood, it's not really being used to actually frame the material.

 

[fetuslasvegas]

I'll let others help you with the other questions, but I will help you with this one.

Any wood will do. Thin ply wood, etc.... The idea isn't to "frame" the material, but to use the wood as a backing for the material. Rapping it in fabric will hold it in place. So, even though you're building a "frame" with the wood, it's not really being used to actually frame the material.

Really? I thought that I 'frame' the outside with wood and then cover the front and back with fabric, wouldn't making a wooden backing defeat the purpose of the panels all together? (please pardon any ignorance)

 

[GIK Acoustics]

I'll let others help you with the other questions, but I will help you with this one.

Any wood will do. Thin ply wood, etc.... The idea isn't to "frame" the material, but to use the wood as a backing for the material. Rapping it in fabric will hold it in place. So, even though you're building a "frame" with the wood, it's not really being used to actually frame the material.

Rami,

I would disagree here. Unless the panel is being mounted directly on the wall, you wouldn't want to cover the back of the panel with wood. Corner treatments and air gaps are negated when you place a hard material against the back of panels (it acts like a wall). A frame, instead, is usually used to simply keep the panel sturdy and keep it from sagging/deforming over time (and provides an easy mounting method).

You can use any type of wood for the frame. If you wish to keep it really light, you can make a box frame out of thin pine (1x2s). The only problem with this is 1x2s are typically sold as furring strips and are typically not the straightest pieces of wood.

As for suggestions on your materials..you've got two packages of 15 @ 16" wide. So we have a total of thirty two inch thick slabs.
I would avoid doing any 2" panels. Maybe on the ceiling if its necessary, but 4" everywhere will provide much better absorption (especially with the Thermafiber you have). Additional air gaps would be great. Id keep all first reflection panels all 4", and maybe 32" x 48" instead of half that height. I wouldn't do 16" traps across the corners. Instead, you can cut them in half lengthwise so you have 24" x 16" pieces. Stack three on top of each other and you'll get 24" x 48" traps. I would make these 4" thick. If you make 4 of them, experiment by placing two on top of each other in only both front corners and also try one in each corner. I usually suggest doing front wall floor to ceiling, rather than half as many on all four corners. Any extra absorption can be used to make thicker (~6" traps) on your back wall.

 

[RAMI]

Well, I can't argue my point because I'm really not an expert, but when I say a backing, I'm not talking about covering the whole back of the fibreglass pnael. I'm talking about a frame-type backing in the sense that it's only covering the outer1.5"- 3" of the panel. I've never seen or heard about anyone making an actual frame in all the articles and videos I watched before building my traps and broad bands. I saw many showing making a frame that the material goes against, and then gets mounted.

Like this: http://youtu.be/_6g13taN9Lc

or this: http://youtu.be/iyYUpkpL0gw



I'm not saying you guys are wrong. I'm saying I might have just learned something new.

How does soft material not collapse if it's sitting inside a frame?

 

[fetuslasvegas]

Rami,

I would disagree here. Unless the panel is being mounted directly on the wall, you wouldn't want to cover the back of the panel with wood. Corner treatments and air gaps are negated when you place a hard material against the back of panels (it acts like a wall). A frame, instead, is usually used to simply keep the panel sturdy and keep it from sagging/deforming over time (and provides an easy mounting method).

You can use any type of wood for the frame. If you wish to keep it really light, you can make a box frame out of thin pine (1x2s). The only problem with this is 1x2s are typically sold as furring strips and are typically not the straightest pieces of wood.

As for suggestions on your materials..you've got two packages of 15 @ 16" wide. So we have a total of thirty two inch thick slabs.
I would avoid doing any 2" panels. Maybe on the ceiling if its necessary, but 4" everywhere will provide much better absorption (especially with the Thermafiber you have). Additional air gaps would be great. Id keep all first reflection panels all 4", and maybe 32" x 48" instead of half that height. I wouldn't do 16" traps across the corners. Instead, you can cut them in half lengthwise so you have 24" x 16" pieces. Stack three on top of each other and you'll get 24" x 48" traps. I would make these 4" thick. If you make 4 of them, experiment by placing two on top of each other in only both front corners and also try one in each corner. I usually suggest doing front wall floor to ceiling, rather than half as many on all four corners. Any extra absorption can be used to make thicker (~6" traps) on your back wall.

as far as the ceiling, are you saying it's not a huge priority to treat it, or that is the only place you would use 2" panels?

I also forgot front wall treatment, would 16"h x room width (minus the front traps) @ 4" be good?

and to clarify, are you saying the back wall panels (not corner traps) should be 6"?

Are your above suggestions for the most efficient use of what I have available, because I can always get more thermafiber, this is just what I have at the moment.

Thanks again!!

 

[GIK Acoustics]

when I say a backing, I'm not talking about covering the whole back of the fibreglass pnael. I'm talking about a frame-type backing in the sense that it's only covering the outer1.5"- 3" of the panel.

Ah, in this case then, yes. This would be okay.

How does soft material not collapse if it's sitting inside a frame?

Depending on how you build it, it can literally be (close to) impossible for something to collapse less it turns into liquid. But I moreso meant after time, fabric starts to sag which will cause insulations to sag, which can make for a pillowy looking absorber. A frame around the whole thing would protect this from happening.

 

[RAMI]

Ah, in this case then, yes. This would be okay.

Phew, that's a relief. I should have just described what I'm talking about as building a picture frame and putting the fibreglass against it.

Depending on how you build it, it can literally be (close to) impossible for something to collapse less it turns into liquid. But I moreso meant after time, fabric starts to sag which will cause insulations to sag, which can make for a pillowy looking absorber. A frame around the whole thing would protect this from happening.

Right. makes sense. I didn't think before I asked, but I can see how the fabric would hold it in place, same as the way it holds it in place the way I built mine.

 

[GIK Acoustics]

as far as the ceiling, are you saying it's not a huge priority to treat it

No,

or that is the only place you would use 2" panels?

Yes!

I also forgot front wall treatment, would 16"h x room width (minus the front traps) @ 4" be good?

That would probably be okay. Keep them at speaker height.

and to clarify, are you saying the back wall panels (not corner traps) should be 6"?

Yes, at least 6"

Are your above suggestions for the most efficient use of what I have available, because I can always get more thermafiber, this is just what I have at the moment.

Mostly yes. If you were to purchase more I would make most traps as outlined above, but make all corner absorbers 6" and back wall absorbers 6". Any air gap you can add to all of them would be more beneficial.
You could also, instead of building 6" thick corner traps, build TriTraps or Soffits for the corners (you can look at the ones on our website for an example). They would use a good bit more material, but work really well.
I wouldn't make them much smaller than the ones we have. Maybe 16" x 16" for the soffits since your material is 16" wide.

 

[fetuslasvegas]

Mr. Reynolds, thanks so much for all your help!!

And with my current material situation, you are saying I should build 4 corner bass traps (positioning TBD), 2 first reflection panels, and then 2 back wall panels. All at the dimensions you suggested of course. (or should I do the corner traps @ 6" w/ 4" first reflection panels and carry on when I get more material?)

After I acquire more rockwool, what should my plan of attack be as far as:
-adding additional corner traps (finishing from floor to ceiling/adding back corners)
-front wall panel behind monitors
-ceiling

 

[fetuslasvegas]

GIK?? Still looking for some answers!!

 

[GIK Acoustics]

Sorry, this thread escaped my vision!

You could either additionally add more 6" absorbers for the corners, OR you could move your 6" absorbers from the corner to the back wall, and build thick traps for the corners (like our TriTrap or Soffit Trap) to get down real low to 50-60 Hz. And yes, ceiling reflection points would be important to treat as well. Front wall/behind the monitor traps may or may not be beneficial. It depends on if SBIR is affecting your response or not. If it is - and it is caused by the front wall - then it will be helpful. If it isn't, then it won't do too much. We've got an article on SBIR on our website here: Speaker Boundary Interference Response SBIR GIK Acoustics