Need help routing my Art Pro VLA II

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jimthepisces

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okay, i thought this would be easier...

just got my first piece of rack gear: the Art Pro VLA II. The only other gear I have is the M-Audio Firewire 1814. I want to use the VLA on one of my sessions as a mastering compressor, so I plugged Inputs 1+2 of the VLA to the Outputs 1+2 of the firewire and Outputs 1+2 of the VLA to the Inputs 1+2 of the VLA.

I setup a stereo audio track with input 1+2 and tried recorded the signal and it sounds muffled and metallic. Can someone give me a brief rundown on how this thing works?
 
jimthepisces said:
okay, i thought this would be easier...

just got my first piece of rack gear: the Art Pro VLA II. The only other gear I have is the M-Audio Firewire 1814. I want to use the VLA on one of my sessions as a mastering compressor, so I plugged Inputs 1+2 of the VLA to the Outputs 1+2 of the firewire and Outputs 1+2 of the VLA to the Inputs 1+2 of the VLA.

I setup a stereo audio track with input 1+2 and tried recorded the signal and it sounds muffled and metallic. Can someone give me a brief rundown on how this thing works?
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Try again... that's just plain impossible
 
Try adjusting your attack and release to achieve your desired effect.
Myself I wouldn't be using the Art as a mastering compressor. I would use it for instance on the drum bus, or bass guitar.
What you want for a mastering compressor would be a VCA or a FET compressor.
You may want to check out re-tubing the unit. But that is just for a different sound it won't fix your problem.






:cool:
 
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You may also want to first put a limiter/compressor with a quick attack and a high ratio settings to catch the transients then followed by the Art.






:cool:
 
Don't use outputs 1 and 2. Those are the ones that your monitors are hooked to, so they are playing both the signal that you are trying to compress and the input signal. You are creating a feedback loop.

You might also fix the problem if you turn off any monitoring on the interface.
 
Massive Master said:
Sounds like you're creating a loop...
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Farview said:
Don't use outputs 1 and 2. Those are the ones that your monitors are hooked to, so they are playing both the signal that you are trying to compress and the input signal. You are creating a feedback loop.

You might also fix the problem if you turn off any monitoring on the interface.
Click to expand...

I tried to envision his set up as he described it but was having a little trouble understanding it .... I thought that there was a loop going on as well. Would that account for the muffled sound and metallic edge?







:cool:
 
Maybe, perhaps sorta try this:

Put a stereo track (a song :) ) up on your DAW.

Route the output of that track to a stereo pair of outs that nothing else goes to. Maybe 1 & 2 are a bad idea, I don't know your setup. Have those outputs setup so they aren't being monitored and plug them into the Art's inputs.

Then on the Art, turn the input threshold knob fully clockwise on each channel. Unless I'm wrong on this (please let me know if I am) turning the threshold on that compressor fully clockwise should make it so the compressor is doing no compressing.

Then plug the Art's outputs into a stereo channel on your DAW and monitor that.

My friend's say I'm a little paranoid, but I don't think it's a bad idea to have a small fire extinguisher on hand when you do stuff like this. :(

ART.jpg


The basic idea is that you start with the threshold so high that it's affecting nothing (fully clockwise on any compressor I've used) and then slowy bring the threshold down (counterclockwise) until the sound is affected. For starters...
 
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Try this

Rout your stereo track to Outs 1&2 (not to the mater bus)
trs from Output 1&2 to input 1&2 on the VLA
Output 1&2 on the VLA to line inputs (on the back of the M-audio) 1&2

Send you master output to outputs 3 and 4 and plug in your monitors to 3 & 4


set up a track to record from inputs 1&2 (returns from the VLA) and monitor it through the maser outs/masterbus

Play your stereo track. this will go out to the VLA get compressed and com back to the new track. you will be able to hear the result by monitoring the input on the new track you created that is receiving the input from the VLA and sending the output to the master bus.

Sounds more complex than it is
 
dintymoore said:
My friend's say I'm a little paranoid, but I don't think it's a bad idea to have a small fire extinguisher on hand when you do stuff like this. :(
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Your friend is right. If this were any sort of hazard, non-computer based studios would have been burning down left and right for the last 60 years.

Line level out to line level in is exactly the way all this should work.
 
Farview said:
Your friend is right. If this were any sort of hazard, non-computer based studios would have been burning down left and right for the last 60 years.

Line level out to line level in is exactly the way all this should work.
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The real problem area meriting an extinguisher is Fire Wire.
 
Thanks for all the replies! So, it does seem like I'm creating a feedback loop going 1/2 to 1/2...

Anyways, here's what I've just tried to remedy the situation. I have FW Out 3/4 going into VLA Ins 1/2 -- VLA Outs 1/2 are going to FW In 5/6 (I picked 5/6 because I thought that would stop the feedback) -- In my pro tools session, I have a stereo wav file with no input and output as 3/4 so that it would send sound to the VLA 1/2, and I have a stereo audio track with inputs 5/6 so that it receives the output of 1/2 from the VLA....does this make sense so far? The Output of the stereo audio track is 1/2. Finally, my master fader is set to 1/2.

When I arm the audio track and record some of the resulting audio, it makes that crazy sound although I do hear the song. When I stop the recording, suddenly it feedsback a LOT, unless I turn down the outputs on the VLA...I'm pretty sure the problem lies somewhere with the signal routing and not the VLA. As far as routing goes, I know absolutely nothing because I've always just done my stuff in the box til now!

Sorry bout the long winded reply!!!
 
You need to turn off all software monitoring and all hardware monitoring.

BTW, this would be easier to follow if you talked about te VLA's i/o as left and right instead of 1 and 2.

The Output of the stereo audio track is 1/2. Finally, my master fader is set to 1/2.
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What stereo track? Why would you send anything to 1/2 since that isn't hooked to anything?
 
Okay, I think we're making some progress.

I left everything plugged in the same as before. The only change I've made was in my M-Audio Firewire monitoring settings. I had it set originally to "Headphone Out 1 A/B" so that I monitored either 1/2 or 3/4 depending on my A/B switch. So, I changed that setting to "Direct Monitoring" and that solved the feedback issue. Now when I stop playback, its silent.

Now my only problem is that when I record the results onto a Stereo audio track, its very quiet. If I crank the output level of the VLA to +20db, it only just barely touches the yellow part of the meter. I was under the impression that the input level would be the same volume as the wav file...

In answer to your query Farview, I set the stereo audio tracks output to 1/2 so that I could hear the results of the compressor...is that right?
 
the stereo audio track must have both an input and and output to enable recording, so i selected 1/2 out
 
jimthepisces said:
Now my only problem is that when I record the results onto a Stereo audio track, its very quiet. If I crank the output level of the VLA to +20db, it only just barely touches the yellow part of the meter. I was under the impression that the input level would be the same volume as the wav file...
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What do the meters on the compressor say? Are you getting anywhere near 0db on the VU meters?


You need to make sure you are sending a good signal in order to recieve a good signal.

If your reduction metersare all lit up, you are reducing the signal by 20-some odd db. How much are you compressing?
 
hey,

yeah, i think its a problem with what i'm sending...the VU meters never get anywhere near zero. When the meters are set to "output" and I crank the master output, it only gets around -7db. When the meters are set to "input" they just sit on -20db. If I have everything hooked up properly, shouldn't the VLA have the same db reading as the .wav file?
 
jimthepisces said:
If I have everything hooked up properly, shouldn't the VLA have the same db reading as the .wav file?
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No. The db scale in the computer is dbFS and the db scale on the VLA is dbVU.

It's two completely different scales that reference two completely different things.

0dbVU is line level. That is the average level of a line level signal. There is headroom above 0dbVU.

0dbFS is the digital ceiling. You can't have any signal above 0dbFS.

Depending on how your converters are calibrated, 0dbVU is going to be more or less equivelant to an average level of -18dbFS. Average, not peak.

Depending on the type of signal, it's pretty easy to have something that peaks at -3dbfs but really only has an average power of -30dbfs. That signal in the analog world would read about -14dbVU.


There is one other thing you might be experiencing. Your interface might be putting out a -10 signal and the VLA might be expecting a +4 signal. These are two different line level standards. It doesn't matter much which one you use, it only matters that all your equipment is using the same standard.
 
You might check that the level fader for your selected output pair in your monitoring/control room software that controls the interface is turned all the way up.
I took a look at the manual (http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/manuals/FireWire-1814_Manual.pdf) and the information you will need to correct your problem (if it is a problem with the way that software is routing signals to the interface) is definitely in there somewhere, but since I don't own the unit, I'm not gonna bother with digging through it to find the answer.


But you definitely should.:D
 
ahaaa...when I get home, I'll check that out. I think I may have turned my outputs 3/4 down cuz they were going to my speakers before I switched it to the VLA! I'll get back to you and that. Thanks!
 
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