Need Help new VS-880VX user here..

Z

ZPphreak

New member
Hi All.. I've been screwing around with this Roland VS-880 VXpanded machine for a while now..
I put a large disc in and maxed it out now I'm getting to a point where I need to know more about it.
My Model supports 1GB partitions and I have 4 GB available total on this machine.

My main concern right now is recording modes.

I have the options of MAS, MT1, MT2 and LIV for Recording modes...
AND I also have the sample rate options of 32K, 44K, and 48K.

I only have to record 4 tracks at a time and that's all Ii'm going to be recording. I will be doing single song projects for the most part. all mixing will be done on a PC so bouncing of tracks is not needed etc.

My ? is.. Is there a big difference in MAS and MT1 modes?
and is there also a big difference in 44K and 48K? sample rates?

Things to keep in mind:
I will NOT be using onboard FX or any mixing features. ONLY trackmarks.

I will be recording Choral music, piano, and Barbeshop Quartet singing as well as guitar with this machine.
My transfer to the PC will be done with the spdif output 2 tracks at a time into my Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum Ex sound card.
Mixing will be done in Sonar 2.0 XL.

Any experience would be greatly appreciated.
So far I've only recorded at 44k and MT1.. I want to know if it's worthwhile to switch over to the MAS and 48K.

Thank you all in advance. I think that this thread will help alot of people figure out just how they should get started.
 
ZPphreak said:
My ? is.. Is there a big difference in MAS and MT1 modes?
Click to expand...

Yes. I can definitely hear a difference, especially 4 tracks deep.

ZPphreak said:
and is there also a big difference in 44K and 48K sample rates?
Click to expand...

Don't think so ... there's a slight improvement in the sound of what's recorded into the VS at 48k (I have an 880vx, by the way). However, by the time you convert that to 44.1 to burn on a CD, I don't think there's a difference ... some people say they can hear a flattening of reverb tails and degradation of stereo imaging in such conversions. If there's a difference, to my ears it ain't worth the processing power (once inside the computer) and disk space. Actually, now I recall a test I did and remember it actually sounded worse than the session that stayed in 44.1 the whole time. There are obviously variables, so take that for what it's worth.

Some people say it's really not worth going to higher sample rates unless you're doing 88.2K ... it's easier to divide by 2 (and hence more likely to be accurate) to get to 44.1 than to do the funky math of going from 48k to 44.1. Even then, it's a debate ... people debate whether going to 192k is worth it for audio being translated down to 44.1 for CDs!

ZPphreak said:
Things to keep in mind:
I will NOT be using onboard FX or any mixing features. ONLY trackmarks.

I will be recording Choral music, piano, and Barbeshop Quartet singing as well as guitar with this machine.
My transfer to the PC will be done with the spdif output 2 tracks at a time into my Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum Ex sound card.
Mixing will be done in Sonar 2.0 XL.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you use the VS how I use mine -- remote recording. I'm going into a Digi 001. SPDIF is great. So is using plugins designed for 24-bit sessions (yes, I know Roland stores at 16-bit, but when you convert, transfer your tracks into a 24-bit session anyway. My limited experience DOES show that the resulting mix is better).

Bottom line, my recommendation is for:

MAS mode session, 44.1
Transfer via SPDIF (a 24-bit stereo format, so you can transfer 2 tracks at a time)
24-bit Sonar XL session (if Sonar calls it a 32-bit session, that would still be 24 bits with 8 bits of float, which as I understand is REALLY just 24-bit).

Hope my input helps! Let me know if there's anything I can clear up or whatever.
 
Geekgurl.. thank you SOOO MUCH. The points about the bit rate conversion were exactly what I thought I really needed an agreement here. So MAS and 44.1 it is then.. I still have yet to completely figure out SONAR ...but I will hehe...
Also, you were fight on the spot.. I only really use the VS for remote recording.. in fact.. I've thought about just buying a Tascam DA-88 and a good 8 channel mixer like a Soundcraft M8. BUT since I've got this VS box for now I'll just use it for my media. It helps alot when I'm doin One-man-band stuff so that I can multitrack the dry tracks much faster.. the 24 bit SPDIF is key here. I rarely need more than 7 tracks when doing barbershop so It works out alright. one extra for the basic track. :D
Thanks for your input.. It helped me figure some things out.

just to clear it up.. I use 4 microphones at a time to record choruses and pianos. no multitracking except in barbershop sessions.... so when I record choruses THAT'S when I use the 4 tracks simultaneous.. and ONLY 4 tracks total.

Thanks a bundle!.. i was hoping you'd jump on my thread!
 
P.S. are the different recording modes (MAS, MT1, MT@ etc...) the different bit rates? (I.E. 24, 20 and 16 bit) or are these just roland-thingies?
If they are just Roland Quality settings.. is there a specific bit rate (16, 20 or 24) that the machine actually records at? I am kind of stumped.. I thought this was a 20 bit recorder...?

confused :(
&
Tired :o

Thanks again
 
High Geekgurl!

It's been quite a time since the last time I heard from you... Everything's fine so far?

What I do not perfectly understand is why you choose to get into the hassle of tranfering the tracks 2by2... U have a MO, U use MAS - did you ever try of using VS2WAV? I've never used but 'talked' to some who have and for them it seems to work perfect exactly with your config... You should be able to read in wave-files directly from the playable song copies that you store on your MOs...

Bye,

aXel
 
Ok, I think I've got this figured out...

...after reading alot at the vsplanet I think I've come to a convclusion...

1) The Roland VS-880 Vx will ONLY record at 16 bits.
2) The Mixer is a 24 bit mixer but is ONLY 24 bits so that Roland can claim it's a 24 bit machine... (heh.. what ass-clowns)
3) Roland invented several different compression ratios and named them with their own
Proprietary meaningless/undecodeable names : MAS, MT1, MT2, LIV...
The only difference is some undiscernable ratio that could never be decoded and quantified.
4) I should more than likely stick with 44.1K sampling rate as it will mesh better with my final product of a finished CD.


Final Questions for any of you that are knowledgeable:

- Since I am just using the VS-880 as a recording medium and NEVER intend to actually produce a full CD on it, my thoughts point to setting my recording bit depth in SONAR at 16 bits since that's all the Roland is REALLY capable of supporting. Is this accurate?
-My Audigy is capable of receiving 24 bit input through the SPDIF.. and SONAR is definitely capable of working with 24 bit audio projects.
But from what I can discern It won't make any difference in quality whether I use 16 bit or 24 bit recording modes on my PC since the original source has been truncated to 16 bit anyway when it was recorded to Hard disk. Does this sound right?

Thanks for your input again Geekgurl. Your questions on the planet helped move a particular thread in the direction that I needed to get an understanding.
If I am incorrect about any of this PLEASE tell me.. My session is on Sunday and I only get one try to record some Beautiful Choral music. (in a concert hall) ..& solo Grand Piano.. so quality is VERY important.

Thanks again,
 
P.S. I'm sorry that I apparently posted an almost-carbon-copy of a thread that I just found on the Vsplanet tonight.. LOL.. I never saw that before... thanks a million.. please do reply to these closing ?'s though.. they are Post-reading of the planet thread.. :-D
 
You may seem quite disappointed of the 24bit mixer, and seem to think that it was just done to 'fool' buyers... This is not right. ANY half way seriously designed machine should have a mixer that uses a higher bit resolution than the recording resolution simply to have headroom. That's one of my major complaints to the 2480 - IMO a 24bit internal FX is a little too course for a 24 bit recording resolution (at least for dynamics, but who'll gonna need the dynamics if he/her has channel dynamics anyway...)

aXel
 
volltreffer, I totally get the purpose of the mixer having more bandwidth.. no worries.. just kindof sounding off I guess...

on another note:

Does ANYONE have any answers for my last questions about the machine? I'd really appreciate any thoughts on the topics... Just to get things straight.

Thanks a Load!
 
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