Need help mixing or is it my software/hardware?

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Jordno

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Hi whoever is reading this :)
Im new to this forum and in need of some serious help.
Now Im no pro or even close, ive been currently mixing down rough demos of my bands work (ill list the gear and software in a second). But im trying to get the best sound possible for these things that I can with what I have, but have a few questions to if my problems can be solved by mixing down things better or that its a matter of the software/hardware im using.
I currently use for software Sonar Home Studio 7, with a M-Audio Fast track pro recording usb interface. The microphone ive been using is a shure sm58 for the vocals and guitars. The bass, synth and drums(electric kit) all go direct by jack lead into the interface.
With 2 Rokit 5 RPG 2 Monitor Speakers. All which record direct to Sonar no problem.
Now for rough demos done in a bedroom there not bad id say, nothing distorts and everything can be heard in a mix.

But from listening to a few bedroom recorded artists that ive spoken to they have managed to record entire albums for themselves with them sounding near studio quality close enough that I've even been willing to pay for these recordings a nice amount as they are pretty close to professional.

My first concern is my mixes always seem like there contained in a small box, even with panning,trying even 100% in one direction panned they always seem like they hit a wall and cant go any further out compared to some peoples mixes ive heard and of course professionally done recordings where it feels like there is far more space and the panning is far more vast and surrounding.
Second is that the volume of these songs once mixed and exported never meet the volume of others mixes(ino of course pro recordings go through alot more than what mine will) but even friends mixes are louder and I make sure the Master bus in sonar is hitting around 0 sometimes slightly over, but it still remains quiet slightly. I never export as a MP3 either.
So I have to then get the mix of the track and master the finished track doubling the volume of the track nearly for it to sound a good volume to be heard close to most songs we hear today.

I dunno if im doing something wrong or my gear is actually restricting me(which seems unlikely to me expect maybe the Sonar) but how can I get a better quality recording?
People I have spoken to are using cubase or logic software with not much difference in hardware expect maybe using actual direct guitar interfaces like the Axe FX, im thinking of buying a newer version of Sonar as mine is around 4 years old nearly as well I noticed mine is a Academic Version(whatever that means)
Any tips or advice im all ears and willing to try things out.
You can hear my demos so far on soundcloud /Fabletheband
like I said not the best recordings haha

Thank you for your time :)
 
I just took a very quick listen.

First impressions:
Song one.
Vocals sound very very very rolled off. Like there's no meat/body to them at all.
They're fine in terms of performance though. I like em.

Guitar sounds like it's mono. Is it one track dead centre?

You could experiment with a doubler or chorus plugin, or better yet record the track again and pan them 50/50 left and right.
Avoid any copy/paste/move tips your might read about.
Might be difficult to double track given the intricate style but maybe you could just keep what you have in the centre,
and double track a separate simpler part for width? Maybe even on acoustic?




Song two.
Same thing with vocals
Same thing with guitars, Ie. They sound dead centre.
Kick is clicky with no meat. Maybe that's what you want but I reckon a bit of thud would go a long way.
Mix is distorting at points (bass guitar?) Drop everything a little.

Your mixes are better than you think; Especially the first track.
You should do more in that style IMO.




The software is the last thing that's gonna be the problem.

Modern daws are all so close together. Upgrading or switching to logic or w/e isn't gonna solve the problem unless this 'academic version' is seriously restricted or something.
 
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Welcome to the forum.
This is the place to learn, but you will have to do a little homework first. Start with the stickies in the Newbie section. Your questions are kind of like asking for the "meaning of life" in a forum post. Do some research and then ask specific questions as they come up. Right now, you have all the tools you need so don't get bogged down in gear. It's all about learning how to use what you have. Keep working on it and you'll be impressed. I've been recording for a few years now and when I listen to the first stuff I did (which I used to think was great), I just want to puke!
 
Thanks alot for the replys so far, I'll check out the newbies section and I plan on redoing the mixes for those tracks for my own experience. Ill do some more recording for them as well
Only problem with the second track is its actually a rough mix down done by my drummer on his simple little 8 track mixer which he exported as an mp3 to allow me to record the vox over, so theres only so much I can do with eq as its more like mastering a track that was never mixed down correctly haha
But I have 2 tracks(one which isnt uploaded) that I can experiment with, I mean thats what its all about right :)
 
Keep experimenting. Your recording/mixing environment may have something to do with the way you feel the sound is, too. When you are somewhat happy with a mix, burn it to disc and listen to it on other systems (your car, home stereo, friend's stereo, etc.)
As others have already commented, the vocals sound a little 'far away' in the mix. Other than the drums and reverb everything sounds very 'mono'. Pan the guitar part way to one side or the other - find a 'place' in the mix for each instrument. I think you may be putting too much reverb on the guitar and vocal in order to get some 'space', instead you get an 'emptiness'.
Don't worry about the overall volume - keep the volume at around -1dB while mixing down, then take your mixed version and MASTER it (or better yet, bring it to someone else to master it) to get the volume up to regular levels, and dont' be too concerned about matching the volumes on commercial mixes.
The mixes sound good, overall, though.
 
Do not adjust your tv. There is nothing wrong with your picture.

Sonar is waaaaayyyyy over kill for most home recording people, but it is good, Sonar 7 is no slouch, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your software. Don't blow a wad of money on an upgrade, at least not until you are ready for it.

Did you use any Sonar plugins to process your sounds after they were recorded?

Imo, strictly my opinion (and maybe shared by a few others) the best thing I learned about mixing came from Massive Mastering......

Never run your mix up any where near 0. I read some of his posts and I tried what he said, and it makes a difference. I record everything at around -20 to -14. (Turn up the monitor volume if it's too soft) Mix everything at -20 to -10, so that your mix never exceeds -10 at the loudest passages. This way you are leaving head room for the mastering guy to work with. The mastering should be the point at which your finished mix gets bumped up to compete volume wise with store bought mixes......if that's really what you want.

I use a quick and dirty home mastering software and I get decent demo quality stuff out of it. I set the maximum ceiling at -.5db or -1db, and bump the gain on my "finished mix" just enough so that the ceiling gets hit lightly every few seconds during the loudest parts of the song. It's close enough to store bought cd volume that I live with it. If you want to do the "mastering" in Sonar, then render your entire mix to wav and start a new empty Sonar project with only that one wav track in it, and do your mastering on the finished wav file that way. Don't do your mixing and mastering all at once on the same Sonar project.

Do a blind test. Mix a song or two this way and burn to a test cd. Play a store bought cd at your favorite volume level, then play your test cd but bump up the volume so the listening level is the same as the store bought cd. Then do this test for your friends and see if they can really hear the difference in quality. The people making those store bought cd mixes have gear that most of us will never be able to afford, and they have years of experience and tricks from the dark side of the force that they will never confess to. Don't try to match them. Just getting close will be impressive enough.

I know it's easy to make the mistake, but try to remember......

Loud as possible does not = Best sound quality possible.

Make the sound great first, then make it loud. You'll get much better results than if you make it loud first, then try to make it sound good.
 
Thanks alot for the tip on the mastering Ill try it out and let you know, Ive uploaded a new track which ive used some different recording techniques and mixing. Let me know what you think in comparison to my older ones. :)
 
Sounds good.
I hear stereo effects on the guitar and some cool vocal bits near the end.

Vocals overall still sound weak to me. What processing do you have on there?
 
The vocals may sound weak due to them not being double tracked, didnt have time to get her to come and do double track of vocals so its just a single track of her. Gonna sound really stupid now but what do you mean processing haha im sure its gonna be something Im doing but not acknowledged hahaha
Thank you for the support and glad im heading down the right path now :)
 
He was asking what effects you are using. She could definitely use a bit of 'beefing' up. That didn't sound right did it. lol
 
just some eq and reverb on her voice with some compression nothing else I wanna get some more recordings of her vocals really on these tracks
 
I would bet folding money that the greatest singers we hear in all those famous recordings are not double tracked.

I bet Steve Walsh never double tracked any vox on any Kansas albums. If some engineer wanted to double track Barbara Streisand, the engineer would get fired before they would ask Barbara to come back to the studio. Double tracking is like cussing........it is just a way to compensate and save time. Either get the best take you can and then mix it as good as you can and accept it the way it is, or get a better singer. Nothing will highlight the different caliber of singers better than working with single-track takes. There are a few tricks you can use with multiple mics that will yield better results than double tracking.

Where's Rami when we need him......
 
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