Need help creating a decent recording setup

[CDelle]

Hi there,

I'm looking for some advice on what kind of gear to buy and how to set everything up for recording weekly jam sessions at my place. First off, a little background:

I get together with a couple buddies every week or so to jam. We currently have a pretty barebones recording setup consisting of one mic (strategically placed to pick up everything decently), a Delta 44 and Audacity. I drum and my buddies play guitar and bass.

I'm looking to improve our recording set up a bit, without going overboard. Right now I'm thinking of getting a 3 mic setup for my drums and hooking them up to a mixer, then connecting that to the PC via the Delta 44. Here's a mixer I've been considering, mainly for the price (I've also heard good things about it in general):

Eurorack-UB1202 (tried posting a link to it but I don't have 5 posts yet..)

Now I'm trying to figure out how to record our jamming the best possible way. I initially wanted to have each instrument have its own track in Audacity however I'm not sure I'll be able to do that cost effectively (or can I?). So now I'm thinking I'll just plug everything into the mixer, get it sounding good and then run that through the Delta 44 into Audacity (on one track).

I'm also trying to figure out how we can hear it while we're playing... so I'm thinking of setting up some sort of monitoring system, though I really don't know where to start. I was hoping to pipe the bass and guitar through the mixer directly from the amps so we could hear them using headphones while we play but I don't know how feasible (or cost effective) that would be.

Anyway, any help would be very appreciated. It's difficult even figuring out where to start, let alone what to spend my moneys on. Thanks!

 

[Massive Master]

www.tweakheadz.com -- Look for "The Guide" --

 

[Dani Pace]

Audacity will allow you to record 2 tracks at once with a standard sound card (I think up to 8 with a firewire interface.) It also has a "play through" feature which allows you to hear (through monitors or headphones) what you are playing. You should be able to use the line out on your PC to conect a headphone amp to your computer. If you dont have a headphone amp you can conect your PC (line out) to a home stereo and use a headphone splitter, you wont have individual volume controls but you will be able to hear what you are recording. Don't use the stereo for mixing but it will work fine for tracking. This isn't ideal but it is a cheap way to get headphones on you and your bandmates so you can hear as you record.

 

[CDelle]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I already have the Delta 44 and Audacity lets me do 4 tracks at once using that.

So I need to get a headphone amp to allow us to listen to what we're playing, while we're playing? Got any links to a good (relatively cheap) one? What about that mixer I linked? Any good? I just want something somewhat entry level to learn on but won't be completely useless if I get more into home recording.

 

[Rokket]

That's a Behringer mixer, right?

Personally, and this is only my opinion, you are better off going with the Yamaha MG series. Better pre amps, quieter than the Behringer equivilant.

Also, don't go from your pre amp outs on your guitar amp into the mixer. It won't sound good and you'll have a lot of problems setting the levels. It will want to clip before it sounds good in the mix. Put a mic on your amp and run that to the mixer.

DI the bass.

Hope this was helpful.

 

[guitar zero]

+1 on mic the cab, DI the bass.

 

[Dani Pace]

When I first began to record digitally I used a 4 track tape deck as a preamp/mixer > Soundblaster soundcard > Audacity. This was not a great set up but it allowed me to learn the basics of digital recording and I managed to get a few almost decent recordings using it. For a headphone amp I was using a little battery powered 3 line unit from Radio Shack (around $30 i think.) My first few dozen recordings were not much better than what I could have done on just the tape deck. As I learned more, I added more gear and better gear whenever I needed too. My set up is still pretty low end compaired to a pro set up but serves my purposes (mostly my 3 piece band and a few other 3-4 piece bands.) Learn how to get the most out of whatever gear you have, when that is no longer "good enough" add to your set up. This is a slow way to build a studio but you will know how to get the most out of everything you have. One thing that impressed me was the HUGE difference a couple of bass traps, a few diffuser panels, and a cloud over the drums in my live room made for the overall sound of my recordings. Home recording is addictive... Just get one decent recording and you're hooked, gotta add something to make it better or easier or faster. Stick with it a while and you'll see (hear) what i mean.

 

[CDelle]

Thanks for the responses guys... DI the bass? What does that mean?

Also, I may end up miking the guitar amp but won't that bleed into the drum mics a bit? Or is it not that big of a deal?

Dani, can you describe your current setup? Because that's basically the same thing I want to do (record a 3-4 piece band).

 

[elly-d]

if i were you i would get as many mics on the kit as you want and mix it to a mono track through a mixer on to your pc so thats

1) kit

2) bass on its own

3) guitars

4) vox

something like that and don't worry too much about bleed onto other mics, you are recording a jam yes? headphones in my opinion is just gonna get in the way of a jam/practice and trying to talk inbetween tracks with the monitoring will piss you off.
i have had good enough results with a couple of mics set up in the middle of a room. then forget it and practice. if you want to record and get a decent sound then that means going a different way about it.

 

[guitar zero]

DI. Direct input. Connect your bass cable to a DI box which converts your instrument level signal to a line level signal. Then from the DI box to the line in on your mixer or preamp, then into your computer. Some preamps/mixers have a DI input already, in which case you wouldn't need a DI box.

 

[Randy Yell]

There are a number of ways that you can go to get what you want. The easiest way and probably the cheapest would be to get an inexpensive two channel preamp (like the m-audio audio buddy) and two inexpensive sd condensor mics and find the sweet spot in the room, put the mics in an xy configuration and hit record. I have a pair of behringer c-2 sdc and they work pretty well for very cheap mics. This way you can get a decent (depending on room, instruments etc) live stereo mix.

If you got a pair of Audio Buddys you could record four tracks of instruments and add vocals after. Instead of one Audio Buddy you could get a small mixer to submix the drums to a stereo track but you could use an audio buddy and two mics on the drums. I would use a snare and kick mic but two overheads might do it too. You could use the Audio Buddy to di the bass (does a very nice job btw) and mic the guitar cab. There will be bleed between the guitar and drum mics so even though they will be on seperate channels you will only have limited control (if you fck up, you have to rerecord, lol) but if you need to fix the bass after you'll be able to so you'll end up with;

two tracks of drums
bass track
guitar track

Once you have those down you can track your vocals individually (you'll need headphones for that) and then you put it all together. The live two mic would be cheaper and easier and give a truer representation of your live performance but the multitrack way will give you much more flexability.

 

[TimN]

CDelle, it sounds like you're trying to do what three (sometimes four) of us do each week, so I'll throw in my opinions:

We have a total of 9-10 mics, but most of them (5) are on the drums; last week the drummer returned after a long hiatus, and since I didn't feel like setting up everything, we used one condenser overhead, and it sounded great.

The Ub 1202 is fine. I'd be shocked if you could hear any noise that's going to bother you. I'm assuming you're recording your voices; each voice gets a mic (we both play acoustics, too; each of those gets a mic).

The "DI" is direct in; I send one electric guitar through a Zoom modeler and that goes to a volume pedal which in turn goes to a channel in on the mixer (stereo line in on the 1202--there are four of them). You do the same with the bass and guitar.

The voices go through the mics which in turn go to one of the four (!) mono mic channels on the 1202. Set the gain accordingly on all channels.

Try miking up the drums with maybe one overhead, or a mic somewhere near the kit. Experiment. That mic or mics goes to one of the mono channels in as well.

Send a stereo signal out through the "main out" on the mixer to the soundcard on the computer, and audition the mix, which leads naturally to me asking you how you listen to yourselves . . .

. . . we are in a 14x14 foot room, and we use headphones, because other wise the noise would cause hearing damage. The drums are loud, as you know. Save your hearing and use phones--good ones, for this, are something like Sennheiser HD 280's ($100.000) This also means you will need a headphone amplifier (about $60.00). You'll need one with four outputs; a balanced cable hooks up the amplifier to the 1202 (ask the guys at Guitar center for a balanced cable, or look on the cable racks). You'll probalby need headphone extension cables so you can play more than five feet from each other.

You'll actually be recording stereo in, which is to say two tracks, off the mixer's main outs. Be careful and set the gain and level on each channel so as to avoid distortion.

P.S.: You can still mic up the git cab (I'm assuming you are playing electric)
and then send that to the mixer, and hear it in the phones. Of course, if the guitar is really loud, the drum mics will pick it up somewhat.

You'l need to give more info about what you play and the room you're in. Our set-up is a bit more involved (a Behringer Eurodesk 2442A and some little UB502's for personal mixes), but the principles are the same. Re-post with more info, but please save your hearing and save your dough for good phones!

 

[Dani Pace]

For recording our jam/practice sessions I mostly premix everything before sending it to the computer, after all we are trying to get a sound which simulates our live sound (including mistakes and lots of room ambiance) so we can improve our performance sound when i record practice sessions.

We start by setting up similar to how we would for a gig, lower volume and only using the PA monitors. My live room is 13'X27' with 9' celling. The floor is carpeted, most of the walls are covered with heavy drapes, bass traps in 2 corners, huge cloud over the drums (tames the harshness of the cymbals) and another cloud above where the vocals are recorded. I don't worry too much about bleedover as I'm after a "live sound" anyway.

For drums I usually use 4 mics, 2 overhead on each side of the kit, 1 in front of the kick and 1 below the snare. Snare and kick mics in the center, overheads panned hard to the right and left.

Guitar amp(s) get cloce miced and panned only enough to give some seperation.

I di the bass panned just enough to seperate it from the kick, about 30% usually does nicely.

Vocals stay pretty much in the center (we don't do a lot of harmony but when we do I set about 25% seperation between the vocal mics.)

I premix the drums on a Yamahaw 4 chanel mixer then use the line outs to a second (main) mixer on 2 chanels. Guitars and bass all on seperate chanels. Vocals are on the main mixer board then lined out to a digita mixer (I use a Soundtech 8 chanel mixer for the final premix before sending it to the computer.)

Mic choice is up to you and your budget. I use AT Pro 30s for overheads, EV N30s for kick and snare, AT 20s for guitar amps, vocals are dependant on who is singing, a Shure 57 is my main vocal mic.

When we use headphones I use a JVC headphone amp hooked to the line out on my PC.

As I said I have a pretty humble set up but with a lot of experimentation I managed to get it to work fairly well. I don't quite get "pro quality" recordings with it but I do get good enough for referance recordings and low budget demos.

I've got a couple of songs on soundclick which were recorded using this set up http://www.soundclick.com/sixfeetover if you want to check them out.