Need guidance on guitar-recording...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nash
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Nash

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Hi, I am new in home-recording and am very interested in recording guitars into the computer.

I am going for the typical loud metal sound... here's my setup:

Electric guitar (I don't know what brand is it... doesn't really matter)

Boss DS-1 distortion pedal (it's all I can afford :()

Crate BX 25 amplifier

Line-in port of my Creative Vibra 128 soundcard (using those adaptors that allow me to hook the big cables into the small hole on the soundcard)

I also have a Shure 58 microphone which I plan to use to record vocals... no, I don't have a "pre-amp" (I picked up that word by reading some of the posts here)... what is a pre-amp and is it a MUST for vocal recording?

Anyway, back to the main topic - guitar recording... I have my own personal favourite tone and equalizer settings - mainly maximizing on bass and treble, and removing as much middle as possible. This sounds good, be it in clean or distortion, and I'm happy with the distortion sound especially.

Now when I try to record through the computer... the recorded clean sound sounds good, HOWEVER... the distortion sound sounds... well to put it simply, CRAP. It's difficult to describe what sound I'm getting, but it's this, urm... crackling sound or something. It also has this "mechanical" and "processed" quality to it... I assumed it would sound exactly the same as when I play live, but apparently it doesn't!

I thought that if I fiddled with the EQs a bit then maybe I would get a nice sound... so I tried. However, messing around with the EQ doesn't solve my problems because I would either get one of the two: muddy sound with no treble quality, or f#&king high-treble crackling processed sound.

I'd like to ask if any of you home-recording pros here have any advice on how I am able to record into the computer the exact sound that is normally produced when I play live, using my favourite EQ settings... or if this isn't possible, then generally how am I able to produce an acceptable sound with the equipment and setup I have above.

Thanks!

- Nash
 
Try turning down your input volume....sounds like your higher frequencies (treble) may be overdriving (clipping).

And the mic preamp is not necessarily required, but I don't believe that your line input is balanced, so you'll need something like a DI box to go from the XLR output (three pin mic connecter) to a standard instrument cable (1/4 inch) rather than just get a cable adapter. Otherwise, it's REALLY going to sound like crap. A preamp would also do the conversion for you.
 
Now when I try to record through the computer... the recorded clean sound sounds good, HOWEVER... the distortion sound sounds... well to put it simply, CRAP. It's difficult to describe what sound I'm getting, but it's this, urm... crackling sound or something. It also has this "mechanical" and "processed" quality to it... I assumed it would sound exactly the same as when I play live, but apparently it doesn't!
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I bet if you put your ear where your putting the mic it would sound pretty close (don't do that though- just making a point). ;)

Less gain on the box, less gain on the amp, don't boost or cut any EQ 100%, and realize that your setup is never gonna sound like the real deal (Marshall, Boogie etc). The best you can hope for is a reasonable facsimily.

And yes, you need some kind of preamp like this to plug that 58 into.
 
I didn't notice how you were recording your guitar. I.e., whether you were mic'ing your amp with the SM58 or running either your pedal or an output of your amp direct.

Generally, a preferred way of recording guitar is to mic it with the SM58, which is a decent mic for this purpose. The SM58 then would go into the mic input of your soundcard (which includes a preamp, albeit, probably a crappy one).

The most likely reason you are getting a crackling sound is because you are recording the amp too loud. In particular, the signal is too hot for your preamp. If you have a way of monitoring your input levels on your computer, check them out. They are probably maxing out.

Reduce your input to your computer, either by reducing your amp volume or by reducing the gain/level of the mic input (like redux mentioned).


Nash said:
any of you home-recording pros
Click to expand...

Now there's an oxymoron. :p
 
Generally, a preferred way of recording guitar is to mic it with the SM58, which is a decent mic for this purpose. The SM58 then would go into the mic input of your soundcard (which includes a preamp, albeit, probably a crappy one).
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Lopp, is this correct? I have always been under the impression that one should fairly well ignor any ambitions to use the mic in and use the line in. Please advise
 
Even said:
Lopp, is this correct? I have always been under the impression that one should fairly well ignor any ambitions to use the mic in and use the line in. Please advise
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If you're serious, the mic-in includes a preamp which is necessary for mic input. The line-in does not. If you have an external preamp, yes, you should use the line-in in combination with the preamp.

From what I can tell, Nash does not have an external preamp, thus he has to use the mic input.

Of course it would be better to use a preamp other than the (most likely) crappy one on the soundcard.
 
I know back when I was playing metal I used to remove all the MIDs and max out the LOWs and HIGHs. I tell you what, drop out the MIDs and leave the LOWs and HIGHTs at 5, no cut or boost. That should remove some of the excessive frequencies. Now, are you micing or direct lining your pedal and amp to the computer? Direct will give you a fuzz sounding distortion, micing will smooth it up. You can get a mic cable with 1/4" outs to go straight into your soundcard, or whatever you have to jimmy-rig it with to get the sound in there.

(When you have the EQs maxed out and then you lower them, your ears won't like it. Wait a half hour or hour then try it. Maybe even start from zero, oh ya, if it needs less or more of something, move it a hair, don't simple crank it 3 or 4 notches.)
 
Lopp, thanks. serious, I personally use a preamp, and was under the distinct impression the "mic in" was evil. Even says so on the ol FAQ intro page to this site
 
Thanks for the replies! I think I didn't make clear in my first message that what I have been doing is that I hooke the output of my amp directly into the line-in hole of my soundcard, using an adapter.

That means... guitar -> Boss DS-1 -> Crate amp -> soundcard

The sound that I described that I've been getting is this:

(84 KB)

After some reading, it seems most people prefer to mic the amplifier and record the guitar by placing the mic at a certain position and angle from the amplifier... since all I have is the Shure58 mic (no pre-amps), a mic cable with XLR on one end (I believe that's what it's called - the one with the three pins right) and 1/4" on the other end... I don't have any mic stands! So I just place the mic on top of some boxes, position it to the right of the amp and point it to the center... I place the mic really close, touching the amp. Here's the sound I get...

(100 KB)

It does sound better, but there's this um, amateur quality to it. I can't tell why, maybe it sounds like it's recorded from a tube, or there's this "far-away" quality to it? I couldn't maximize the volume any farther - it would cause clipping. :( The mic is so close to the amp though... I don't know what to do!?!?!

Man, never thought recording guitars was so hard... I feel like giving up. :(
 
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Man, never thought recording guitars was so hard... I feel like giving up. :(

LOL..... If you think guitars are hard to record...wait until you try to record an acoustic set of drums sometime.

It does sound better, but there's this um, amateur quality to it.

Amateur quality????..... you've got a guitar that you don't know what brand it is..."doesn't matter"..... and this signal chain....guitar -> Boss DS-1 -> Crate amp -> soundcard
 
Okay fine I suck at this! Thought I could get some help here...

I'll just walk away and never bother anyone again... :(
 
NEVER GIVE UP ( I suck too, Im still here )

There are a lot of factors to consider there, most of which is your signal chain. I am not an professional, I am a homerecorder. All of my recordings sounded like that for a long time, but then I invested in a little bit of gear and it is starting to sound better. HAHA, Well once I get a freakin computer i can record on again, but thats my own problem not yours.

I would have to say that part of it is probably due to the fact that your soundcard isnt one of the more highly recommended for this purpose, altho I do realize that is all you have. As well, the preamp stated above (audiobuddy) will probably go a long way to helping you get better results. Not only for guitar, but any vocals as well. Sometimes yes unfortunately it does mean spending a few more bucks, but in the end youll be happy you did, I think.

In the meantime, I think all you can do is continue to experiment with your EQ and volume settings on the amp. Maybe even put a big box over the amp and mic. Or a big blanket. And if it is possible with your prograsm for tracking, try doubling up the guitars. Maybe even try micing behind the amp. Anything along those lines I am sure will have a fairly drastic impact on your sound. The big thing is to experiment, try new things. AND NEVER EVER GIVE UP!!!!:D Good Luck.
 
Try placing the mic on some books and level it out so it points head on with the center of the clone of your speaker. About 2-3 inches from the grill clothe is perfect.

You have no idea how many perfessional recordings are done with a SM58 on the guitar cab. They just have more expensive amps and gear.

I know people will kill me for saying this but, get a new soundcard before a mic preamp.

The DS1 isn't really suited for Metal, but you can make it work...trust me.
 
Acually your sound sample doesn't sound that bad. If you wanna know a secret......In the history or recording, no electric guitar has ever sounded good by it self, and if for some reason you make it sound good by itself, it sounds like garbage with the drums and bass.
 
LocusLarsen said:
Acually your sound sample doesn't sound that bad. If you wanna know a secret......In the history or recording, no electric guitar has ever sounded good by it self, and if for some reason you make it sound good by itself, it sounds like garbage with the drums and bass.
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No doubt. The clip actually sounds better than I expected.

You will probably get a few replies telling you that you need to upgrade your gear. However, you can always work on your technique with the gear you have. Which, in fact, you are doing nicely right now. Get your technique down first, quite often new gear is used as a band-aid for crappy technique.

Which is not to say that better gear won't help. It will. However, you have already fixed at least one drastic flaw in your technique (running a non-modeling amp direct) and are taking good steps in the right direction.


Now that you're headed in the right direction, you can experiment with mic placement. Different angles and distances from the guitar cabinet speaker will give different sounds. Personally, for metal, I prefer the mic placed directly against the grill, pointed directly at the speaker. You can then adjust the angle a bit for body and warmth. Pulling the mic back will reduce some of the fullness and will capture some of your room resonances.
 
Getting a good guitar sound is a matter of trial and error. Here are a few things you might want to consider when experimenting with your sound:

-Removing the mids is not always a good thing. I realize you stated in your post that you got your EQ set just the way you like it and you are basically happy with your sound. But if you ever want to change things up, try putting more mid in your sound.. A common mistake is to record without mids, only to discover later that when the bass guitar is recorded, it totally buries the guitar. So what do you do? Well, you lower the bass and raise the guitar.. then your bass guitar disappears. A guitar with midrange can be heard just above the bass, resulting in a very rich combination. (an example is comparing the guitar sounds on Metallica's "Master of Puppets" with "And Justice for All". The guitars are warmer on Master. On Justice, the guitars have little in midrange, and the bass is non-existent because the guitars were cranked to compensate.. Of course, some people like this sound better, so your mileage may vary).

-The SM57 is generally considered one of the best mics for recording distorted guitar. You have an SM58, which, when the top of the mic is unscrewed shares almost the exact same frequency characteristics of the SM57. If you are happy with the 58 as is, then cool.. but you might want to experiment with the 57 sound too.

-A lot of your trial and error will come from mic placement.. As you can see, everyone has their preference. Mine always seems to be to have the mike sit parallel to the right side of the amp, about 5 inches back, and pointed at about a 45 degree angle towards the cone. It comes out darker that way which is what I prefer.

-Use little reverb when recording guitar tracks. Too much reverb will really mess up heavy picking. Either use very sparingly, or avoid it altogether.

-Get rid of all that gain. A really good rule of thumb is if when you lightly strum on the guitar it comes out clean, then you have just the amount of gain you need.. Too much gain makes the track a complete mess, losing tone and clarity. The metal chunk rhythm comes more from heavy picking than distortion.

Cy
 
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