need beginner microphone advice

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deferr

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I'm getting into analog recording and I need advice on a mic around $100.

I'm going to mostly record acoustic guitar, vocals, and harmonica. And I will be recording to a reel to reel machine.

I've been considering a Shure 57 or 58.
 
Are you going to use a preamp or mixer with phantom power? If not, this will severly limit your mic choices and also the quality of your recordings.
 
Yes a 57 or 58. In a condensor mic I'd say the SP B1.

Jacob
 
Ok so the shure 58 is for vocals a lot right?
Are you suggesting a condenser mic to mic the acoustic?
 
The 57 and 58, as I understand, are basically the same mic, just with different windscreens.

The 58 with its rounded screen is tougher to fit into tight spots. I find it easier to sing into live than a 57, though (easier to go off-axis with the 57's screen).
 
deferr said:
Ok so the shure 58 is for vocals a lot right?
Are you suggesting a condenser mic to mic the acoustic?
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The 58 is an ok mic and is used a lot for live vocals. It can be used for recording, but you will get a more detailed recording with a condenser. However, you will need a preamp with phantom power to use a condenser mic (worth the investment, anyway).
 
i know i might sound like a complete idiot saying this but can someone tell me why only condensors need phantom power and why shure sm57's dont? Will it damage the shure sm57 if i use phantom power with it?
sorry for being stupid but i need to know and start somewhere
 
breeeeza said:
i know i might sound like a complete idiot saying this but can someone tell me why only condensors need phantom power and why shure sm57's dont? Will it damage the shure sm57 if i use phantom power with it?
sorry for being stupid but i need to know and start somewhere
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The "why" question is just about the difference between dynamic and condenser microphones. The big sticky thread at the top of the forum covers it all. Basically, condensers require power for their internal amplification to get the tiny signal from the microphone diaphragm to the preamplifier.

No, phantom power won't harm your sm57 at all.
 
simpleybass said:
4 channel preamp. Boosts signal to line level, and provides phantom power. $79.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--STOPR4
Click to expand...

You might also consider dropping an extra $30 for the Peavey PV8 mixer. It has very clean pres for the price, IMHO, but it also has the advantage of being able to be used for other tasks on occasion. For some reason, the Zzounds price sucks, coming in at $20 higher than almost everybody else, but you can get it from a lot of online stores for $110.

http://www.electronicscity.com/product_info.php?products_id=1128
 
breeeeza said:
i know i might sound like a complete idiot saying this but can someone tell me why only condensors need phantom power and why shure sm57's dont?
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The dynamic mic uses a magent+coil construction, able to generate it's own signal level.

The condensor uses what is essentially a capacitor, which requires voltage to charge and bias the capacitor.

Both rely on a diaphragm as the first component in the transducer, but an electric capacitor element is by definition more accurate and responsive than the mechanical magnet+coil construction.

Anyone feel free to clarify, my electronics theory is a little rusty......
 
dgatwood said:
You might also consider dropping an extra $30 for the Peavey PV8 mixer. It has very clean pres for the price, IMHO, but it also has the advantage of being able to be used for other tasks on occasion. For some reason, the Zzounds price sucks, coming in at $20 higher than almost everybody else, but you can get it from a lot of online stores for $110.

http://www.electronicscity.com/product_info.php?products_id=1128
Click to expand...

Yeah, but there is a problem there. That mixer only outputs to stereo. So if you want to record four tracks simultaneously, you can't run all four through that mixer. You can put four inputs into it, but only two out (stereo).

With a four channel pre-amp, the channels are not mixed. four inputs, four outputs. I'm assuming your reel-to-reel is a four track, and you want to record four tracks simultaneously. If not, this may not apply.

It all depends what you want to do.
 
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simpleybass said:
Yeah, but there is a problem there. That mixer only outputs to stereo. So if you want to record four tracks simultaneously on your delta 44, you can't do it with that mixer. You can put four inputs into it, but only two out (stereo).

With a four channel pre-amp, the channels are not mixed. four inputs, four outputs... into your four inputs on the delta 44.

It all depends what you want to do.
Click to expand...

That's not correct. I use that mixer for preamps myself. While the main outputs are mixed, it also has channel inserts on all four preamped channels. These provide access to the raw preamp output of each channel.

To use it as separate preamps, you'll need a cable adapter to split a 1/4" stereo into a pair of 1/4" mono connectors. Plug the 1/4" stereo plug into the channel insert. One of the mono connectors is the insert send, which carries the preamp output. The other one is a return that you can feed with up to four outputs from the audio interface to mix down and feed to your speakers or whatever.
 
I stand corrected. I didn't realize that mixer could output four channels.

But I gotta say... all those extra connections can create problems in your signal path.

Also, I must admit I'm skeptical about the quality of the pre-amps in a $100 Peavey mixer, but then again I shouldn't knock till I try it.

I do know that the pre-amps in the SM audio unit I suggested are clean and quiet, and provide phantom power. Perfect for my application: condenser mics on vocals and acoustic instruments, through the preamp, to 1/4" connectors into my analog recorder.

When I fist mic'd an acoustic guitar with my SP B1, ran it through that pre-amp into my recorder... I was totally blown away by the quality of the recording. So clean. It was miles ahead of anything i previously got with a dynamic mic.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=45240&highlight=condenser

It's wonderful that we can get recordings of that quality with that relatively inexpensive equipment.

:o
 
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deferr

I forgot to say : YEAH on ANALOG!

I saw on another thread you are using an 8 track reel to reel.

If you need more than 4 channels of preamps (i.e. for recording more than four mics simultaneously), here's an 8 channel.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--STOPROPR8

P.S. What type brand/model 8 track are you using?
 
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I haven't received it yet but it's a fostex M80. I think I will go for a 16 channel mixer to really make myself flexible. At first I will just be recording acoustic guitars, vocals, and harmonica, but hopefully I'll be able to record for people other than my brother.

What essential rack mount effects would you recommend for a acoustic type album. I have a compressor, but it only has one input. How would I deal with this?
 
simpleybass said:
I stand corrected. I didn't realize that mixer could output four channels.
Click to expand...

Output, no, but channel inserts, yes.



simpleybass said:
But I gotta say... all those extra connections can create problems in your signal path.
[/QUOTE[

You pretty much have to have those same connections either way (unless you have to add extra adapters to do the split). Only difference with a channel insert is that one jack carries both the preamp output and the return rather than having a cable from a standalone pre to your interface and a separate cable from the interface out to a channel input on your mixer for output. And of course, you don't -have- to use the mixer for output. I don't. Two outputs of one of my interfaces go directly to my speakers.


simpleybass said:
Also, I must admit I'm skeptical about the quality of the pre-amps in a $100 Peavey mixer, but then again I shouldn't knock till I try it.
Click to expand...

All I can compare it to is the gear I've used: a Mackie CR-1604 (not VLZ), an M-Audio FW1814, a Presonus Firepod, and various random cassette decks over the years. The cassette decks always had high noise floors, so we'll ignore those entirely. The CR-1604 made everything muddy and boxy sounding. When I switched from that to the Peavey, the sound just came to life....

The Firepod sounds similar---I haven't really taken the time to A/B the two. The M-Audio FW1814 pres... I wasn't as impressed with them. The highs sounded a little brittle by comparison. They didn't sound bad, but they didn't sound as good as either the Firepod or the Peavey.


simpleybass said:
When I fist mic'd an acoustic guitar with my SP B1, ran it through that pre-amp into my recorder... I was totally blown away by the quality of the recording. So clean. It was miles ahead of anything i previously got with a dynamic mic.
Click to expand...

Yeah. That's what a properly designed preamp will do. It's amazing how utterly lousy some cheap preamps sound---usually not because of the actual preamp (which may just be a chip in many cases), but rather because of cheap parts used to connect the preamp to the inputs/outputs.

Many a good preamp is ruined by poor quality filter caps to cut the phantom power out of the signal lines. Many a good preamp design is ruined by a bad power supply design that introduces hum or high frequency noise. Many a good preamp is ruined by somebody plugging a guitar cab's speaker output into it.... :D
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To Deferr: Buy a Large Condenser Mic and see my many Posts on recording Vocals and
Acoustic guitar. Just keyword KJ09 in the search window and they should all come up.
Use a Pop Filter (or Filter Screen) on your Mic when recording Vocals. Don't eat the
Condenser Mic on vocals, just stay about 1-2 feet off the Mic and go for it. Make sure
to set your VU meters at 100%-102% because Condenser Mics distort fairly easy due to
their sensitivity. You can use an SM-57 for Acoustic, Vocals, and Harmnica but a large
Condenser set right will give you a more professional studio sound usng a reel-to-reel.
Just make sure you also have a line matching Transformer going into your recorder
(they cost $15) because they inputs of the recorder are high impedance inputs. The
SM-57 is wired for Low Impedance from the factory (it says Lo-Z on the side of it in
white letters on the black plastic).

If you use an SM-57 on Vocals you will have to stand back from the Mic about 2 feet
in order to dminish Proximity Effect (increasing Bass frequencies as you get closer to the
mic) which is WHY I'd buy a large Condenser Mic to record Vocals with. You will get more
of a studio sound if you use a Condenser Mic on vocals per my instructions. See my other
Posts re: Condenser Mics by key wording KJ09.

The SM-57 is an excellent instrument Mic but a large Condenser will really shine on
Vocals without adding any Proximity Effect giving you a clear crisp vocal in your Mix.
 
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