Here's the deal. I've been using a Trident 80B with a lot of outboard gear to go with it. The situation went haywire and I cannot continue mixing there. I guess the two partners are parting ways and I got stuck with two projects there unfinished. I need a mixer that will have that big rock sound, at least 24x4 channels, and direct outs. I really don't want the head aches of a vintage console and my budget is around 7K. Anything I should be looking at?
Need a mixer
- Thread starter Micter
- Start date
Cult_Status02
New member
Check out http://www.odysseyprosound.com/ and look at the used area. You'll find some great prices on there. Not a lot of info, but it'll let you know what's out there. I'm looking at that ALLEN & HEATH GS3000, $4,800 sounds like a good price. Hope you can get some consoles to research. Good luck, let us know what you get.
ssscientist
Info you can use...
When I want the big rawk sound I use a Soundcraft Ghost.
They sound great and you can find a clean used one for well within your budget.
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They sound great and you can find a clean used one for well within your budget.
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Ironklad Audio
New member
fuck dude
my school "upgraded" to a digidesign console a few months ago, and sold their mackie d8b and 24 channel ghost at the same time...i could've hooked you up with a good price on one or the other, but i'm pretty sure they're both sold
my school "upgraded" to a digidesign console a few months ago, and sold their mackie d8b and 24 channel ghost at the same time...i could've hooked you up with a good price on one or the other, but i'm pretty sure they're both sold
I hate to say it guys, but a Ghost or an Allen Heath GS3000 are not even close in quality to a Trident Series 80. Just about nay Trident for that matter. As for paying $4800 for a GS3000, that sounds WAY too high to me. Thats darned near what they cost new.
If I were looking in the $7k range today for a "rock'n'roll" console, I would probably be calling the guys over at Blevins audio and buying an MCI 636. They should have at least a couple in stock in that price range that have the touchels with them, patchbays, some sort of primitive MCI automation, and that has been recently serviced by Blevins. In fact, you may be able to get one for closer to $5k and then you could spend the other $2000 putting 4 Hardy preamps and 2 API preamps into it
If I remember right, the John Hardy preamps are about $200 a channel for the MCI consoles.
If you decide to go Soundcraft, I would go with a series 6000, or a TS 24. In my opinion those two models clean house with the Ghost, and used go for the same and up to about double what a Ghost goes for. You may also be able to find a used Trident series 65, or series 24 for your price range. If you want new and not used though, none of the new stuff will touch the quality of a Trident series 80 until you start spending some real money... Neotek, D&R, Audient etc....
If I were looking in the $7k range today for a "rock'n'roll" console, I would probably be calling the guys over at Blevins audio and buying an MCI 636. They should have at least a couple in stock in that price range that have the touchels with them, patchbays, some sort of primitive MCI automation, and that has been recently serviced by Blevins. In fact, you may be able to get one for closer to $5k and then you could spend the other $2000 putting 4 Hardy preamps and 2 API preamps into it
If I remember right, the John Hardy preamps are about $200 a channel for the MCI consoles. If you decide to go Soundcraft, I would go with a series 6000, or a TS 24. In my opinion those two models clean house with the Ghost, and used go for the same and up to about double what a Ghost goes for. You may also be able to find a used Trident series 65, or series 24 for your price range. If you want new and not used though, none of the new stuff will touch the quality of a Trident series 80 until you start spending some real money... Neotek, D&R, Audient etc....
ssscientist
Info you can use...
xstatic said:
Where did you get the idea that a Soundcraft Ghost is in the junior league? A well set up and maintained Ghost will give more than professional results, and the .05% improvement you'll get by spending twice as much will be lost on all but the Clearmountains, the Vigs and the Floods of the HR dot com community.
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xstatic said:I hate to say it guys, but a Ghost or an Allen Heath GS3000 are not even close in quality to a Trident Series 80. Just about nay Trident for that matter. As for paying $4800 for a GS3000, that sounds WAY too high to me. Thats darned near what they cost new.
If I were looking in the $7k range today for a "rock'n'roll" console, I would probably be calling the guys over at Blevins audio and buying an MCI 636. They should have at least a couple in stock in that price range that have the touchels with them, patchbays, some sort of primitive MCI automation, and that has been recently serviced by Blevins. In fact, you may be able to get one for closer to $5k and then you could spend the other $2000 putting 4 Hardy preamps and 2 API preamps into it
If you decide to go Soundcraft, I would go with a series 6000, or a TS 24. In my opinion those two models clean house with the Ghost, and used go for the same and up to about double what a Ghost goes for. You may also be able to find a used Trident series 65, or series 24 for your price range. If you want new and not used though, none of the new stuff will touch the quality of a Trident series 80 until you start spending some real money... Neotek, D&R, Audient etc....
I know I can't get the quality of an 80b with anything new but I don't have the budget to restore a vintage console either. Even trying to maintain something 20 or 30 years old would break me. I've thought about a Midas Venice but can't find one to test drive. I've actually looked at some of the high end summing mixers like the Neve 8816 or even the Chandler but I'm not sure about that either. This is a tough purchase!
ssscientist said:
Where did you get the idea that a Soundcraft Ghost is in the junior league? A well set up and maintained Ghost will give more than professional results, and the .05% improvement you'll get by spending twice as much will be lost on all but the Clearmountains, the Vigs and the Floods of the HR dot com community.
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Actually, I got that information from years of experience and having used a Ghost as well as some of the other options I mentioned on numerous occasions. We could start with the preamps. They sound OK. Once you get past about 40 db of gain though you can really start hearing the noise. They are a kind of slow sounding preamp, which can be good, but it is not a slow sound in the Neve way. Then there is the EQ. Again, the EQ sounds OK, but is certainly nothing to write home about. It works, but there is no real "power" to the EQ like you get in the other vintage desks. Personally, I also do not like the shortloaded inline design either. I really was not trying to say bad things about the Ghost, because for an inline studio console still in production, it is a pretty good value. It's a great studio starter desk in my opinion. As far as the GS3000, I would rate it right there next to the Ghost. However, if you have ever worked on a nicer console than the Ghost, you would know exactly what I mean. I have worked on Neve's, SSL's, several different Amek's, Harrison's, D&R's, the older soundcrafts I have mentioned, Trident's, MCI's, Sony 3036 etc... All of those consoles have a character that can not be touched by the Ghost. Ask NL5 what he thinks of the difference between his Ghost that he just sold and the series 80 he just bought. I am sure that he will not say bad things about the Ghost, but I am also sure he is not regretting his series 80 sound either
The point is that virtually everyone who has worked on the nicer consoles will tell you that the Ghost does not even come close. Even to the older Soundcraft models like the TS24, TS12 and series 6000 (some of which can be had used for about $2000). Micter mentioned he had spent a lot of time on a series 80. Knowing that I felt like he might have a hard time working on a Ghost. Having a nice console is akin to having racks full of nice preamps and EQ's. Having a Ghost is more like having a deluxe Mackie, had it been built like it should have. As far as not wanting vintage desks because of the labor and TLC (which can often mean $) is understandable. That is one reason why I suggested calling Blevins. They are THE MCI guys. They almost always have a few MCI consoles in stock that they have already completely gone thorugh and that have all the necessary looms even. If you look at it that way, there should not be much maintenance involved in keeping an MCI in good shape. The MCI has a big warm sound to it that reminds me a lot of the stock MCI sound. The real differences are in the EQ. The MCI's offer several different types of EQ that sound very different. I still prefer Trident EQ, but the MCI consoles are very modular. You can add Forsell stuff to them, Hardy preamps, API preamps and EQ's, and if you can find them, there are some Avalon cards floating around that can go into the MCI consoles. I suggest at least talking to the Blevins guys. They are straight up people and can help address your questions. They may even have something else you are interested in.
As far as the Midas venice goes... I like the sound of the Venice much more than the Ghost. The preamps and EQ's are awesome, but the Midas venice feature set is very limited. It is a traditional live format which means no inline or split channel structure, 4 buss, 60mm faders, no pad, 48v on the back (easy to get used to and there is a light on the channel side to show you it is on), no phase reverse, and only two of the 6 auxes are switchable between pre and post. 2 others are always post, 2 are always pre. The direct outs are also post EQ and post fader, but there is an affordable mod that can be done at Midas repair in Minnesota that can address this issue for you. Sonically, the Venice sounds like much more than it costs. Midas did a great job releasing an awesopme sounding console that hits a low price point by stripping a lot of the features.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
X,xstatic said:
"Slow" is not an adjective that I am that used to hearing when talking about preamps. I know that it can be extremely difficult to put this kind of stuff into words, but could you try and explain a bit better what you mean by a slow-sounding preamp?
Is that a way of saying that it sounds like it might be missing transients and sounding kind of like a fast attack compressor?
I also wonder where all those old MCIs are coming from that Blevins always has a couple in stock. They get passed around from studio to studio like Christmas fruitcake?
G.
Xstatic
I don't need a lot of features that the vintage consoles have. I really need the warmth and punch that stuff like Mackie and the Soundcraft boards don't offer. The MCI boards at blevins might be a good deal but then again they are probably too big for my needs. If I had to sqeeze one in here I can but it might take up too much square footage.
Any thoughts on summing mixers? I was looking at the Rolls Falcrom then possibly coming out of that into an A Designs Pacifica which has the sound I'm after or even a pair of the Trident 80 series preamps that are being remade. I don't use a lot of EQ. Most of my mixes have less than 4dB in bumps and usually on snare and kick only. I'm thinking about a lot of different ways to get from A to B but nothing is standing out as Ahhhhh! That's it! Maybe I'm thinking too creative?
I don't need a lot of features that the vintage consoles have. I really need the warmth and punch that stuff like Mackie and the Soundcraft boards don't offer. The MCI boards at blevins might be a good deal but then again they are probably too big for my needs. If I had to sqeeze one in here I can but it might take up too much square footage.
Any thoughts on summing mixers? I was looking at the Rolls Falcrom then possibly coming out of that into an A Designs Pacifica which has the sound I'm after or even a pair of the Trident 80 series preamps that are being remade. I don't use a lot of EQ. Most of my mixes have less than 4dB in bumps and usually on snare and kick only. I'm thinking about a lot of different ways to get from A to B but nothing is standing out as Ahhhhh! That's it! Maybe I'm thinking too creative?
Glen, how it was explained to me with the term slow is how some preamps tend to not accent the beginning transients of a sound as much as others. This helps to create a kind of big warm sound. It would be similar to compression, but maybe a little less exagerated. API's are known to be much "faster" which helps to create a lot of "punch" where a Neve would be a little "slower" and helps to create a "buttery rich" sound. There is a lot more to it than that, but hopefully that helps a bit.
As far as new consoles, you may want to look into the new Toft consoles. They are a bit smaller and offer some good features as well as being designed by a good designer. The MCI may or may not be too big for you. Smaller MCI's come in at about 4 or 5 feet in width. As far as newer consoles go, I am not really sure what to tell you. Most of the good sounding ones just tend to be built a bit bigger.
As far as new consoles, you may want to look into the new Toft consoles. They are a bit smaller and offer some good features as well as being designed by a good designer. The MCI may or may not be too big for you. Smaller MCI's come in at about 4 or 5 feet in width. As far as newer consoles go, I am not really sure what to tell you. Most of the good sounding ones just tend to be built a bit bigger.