Need a "for dummies" explanation on how to use a talk box.

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purplepeople

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Over the years, I've really wanted to try out a talk box for recording cool choruses, but I've always been confused on exactly how it works.
I presume it's complicated because I've barely seen anyone try it.
I've watched several YouTube videos and the explanations aren't great.

Is a Dunlop MXR M222 the best one?

How exactly does someone record vocals with one of these?

One video talked about needing a synthesizer or guitar. Currently I have neither.

Would any synthesizer work?
What's the cheapest option?

Would I need to know how to properly play the piano to get a good result? I don't totally understand how it works.
I always thought it was kind of like Auto-tune, but it doesn't seem to be.
Are they super tricky to pronunciation words with? I don't totally get it.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
 
purplepeople said:
Over the years, I've really wanted to try out a talk box for recording cool choruses, but I've always been confused on exactly how it works.
I presume it's complicated because I've barely seen anyone try it.
I've watched several YouTube videos and the explanations aren't great.

Is a Dunlop MXR M222 the best one?

How exactly does someone record vocals with one of these?

One video talked about needing a synthesizer or guitar. Currently I have neither.

Would any synthesizer work?
What's the cheapest option?

Would I need to know how to properly play the piano to get a good result? I don't totally understand how it works.
I always thought it was kind of like Auto-tune, but it doesn't seem to be.
Are they super tricky to pronunciation words with? I don't totally get it.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Click to expand...
You just sing (say words) into a mic while playing the guitar. I don't know how it works with keyboards. Probably line out from keyboard into talk box.
 
I think you’ve got confunded. The talk box is a small loudspeaker inside a box, and the speaker’s exit is a small hole that has a plastic tube you tape to your mic, that sticks into your mouth a couple of inches. It has a guitar level input, with a loop through output to go to your amp or other gizmos. So it comes after your effects. So you play, the sound goes up the tube into your mouth, and you form words with your mouth, or making the oooh to aaaah shape creates a sort of wah wah. Sparkys magic piano vocoder is very similar. Replace the guitar with a keyboard, or even the output from a mixer or daw and you use formants which we use for speech using your input rather than vocal chords. Back in the 70s we all built them using small speakers, gaffer tape and hosepipe! The small drawback is that if you use too much volume, you spontaneously vomit! Your gag reflex. Its not that pleasant till you get used to it. I guess the current devices protect from too much level as the amp is built into the box. You need some instrument source. Guitar and keys are the most common, but a mic on any instrument, through a mixer and out the aux would work.

You just record the mic, close to your lips.
 
rob aylestone said:
I think you’ve got confunded. The talk box is a small loudspeaker inside a box, and the speaker’s exit is a small hole that has a plastic tube you tape to your mic, that sticks into your mouth a couple of inches. It has a guitar level input, with a loop through output to go to your amp or other gizmos. So it comes after your effects. So you play, the sound goes up the tube into your mouth, and you form words with your mouth, or making the oooh to aaaah shape creates a sort of wah wah. Sparkys magic piano vocoder is very similar. Replace the guitar with a keyboard, or even the output from a mixer or daw and you use formants which we use for speech using your input rather than vocal chords. Back in the 70s we all built them using small speakers, gaffer tape and hosepipe! The small drawback is that if you use too much volume, you spontaneously vomit! Your gag reflex. Its not that pleasant till you get used to it. I guess the current devices protect from too much level as the amp is built into the box. You need some instrument source. Guitar and keys are the most common, but a mic on any instrument, through a mixer and out the aux would work.

You just record the mic, close to your lips.
Click to expand...
How important is the quality of the sounds from the keyboard? Like is the quality of the effect only as good as the sound pack in the keyboard?

Is it difficult to formulate full words?
Looking to do something similar to Roger Troutman.

Do you have to play actual proper notes? Or are you just playing a couple keys back and forth to oscillate the sound?
I ask because I don't know the first thing about playing the piano.
 
purplepeople said:
How important is the quality of the sounds from the keyboard? Like is the quality of the effect only as good as the sound pack in the keyboard?
Click to expand...
Sawtooth waves are the easier to form words - pad type sounds are the hardest.

purplepeople said:
Is it difficult to formulate full words?
Looking to do something similar to Roger Troutman.
Click to expand...

It takes practice - it’s definitely a weird feeling at first -

purplepeople said:
Do you have to play actual proper notes? Or are you just playing a couple keys back and forth to oscillate the sound?
I ask because I don't know the first thing about playing the piano.
Click to expand...
Well distorted guitar works because it is a consistent sound - Piano sounds wouldn’t exactly work due to the duration.
I suggest playing around and you’ll hear it when you hear it.
 
Papanate said:
Sawtooth waves are the easier to form words - pad type sounds are the hardest.



It takes practice - it’s definitely a weird feeling at first -


Well distorted guitar works because it is a consistent sound - Piano sounds wouldn’t exactly work due to the duration.
I suggest playing around and you’ll hear it when you hear it.
Click to expand...
I mean for gear. I don't currently have a keyboard/synth. I'm trying to figure out what is the cheapest device I could use to get a good sound.
Not looking to invest a ton of money into it because it might not be something I end up liking.
Any advice?
 
You can use anything that makes sound. It's almost like the artificial larynx that is used by people who have had their larynx removed due to throat cancer. What you are doing is using the sound from the tube in place of you making sound with your vocal chords. By using the pitch of the instrument, it become "singing".

 
Theyre also pretty disgusting. Your spit goes down the tube, so needs cleaning. Yuk.
 
TalismanRich said:
You can use anything that makes sound. It's almost like the artificial larynx that is used by people who have had their larynx removed due to throat cancer. What you are doing is using the sound from the tube in place of you making sound with your vocal chords. By using the pitch of the instrument, it become "singing".

Click to expand...


But what affordable option would work best?
I was considering a Behringer MS-1-RD, but it seems they are discontinued.
Every other synth seems to be super expensive.
 
I have a question. If you don't have a synth, or a guitar - what do you have? If you have a DAW, then maybe what you want is a vocoder plug-in? Very similar in terms of what they do? If this is for live use, then the other question is .... how are your keyboard or guitar playing skills?
My old favourite has a bit here that makes it easier to understand.
 
rob aylestone said:
I have a question. If you don't have a synth, or a guitar - what do you have? If you have a DAW, then maybe what you want is a vocoder plug-in? Very similar in terms of what they do? If this is for live use, then the other question is .... how are your keyboard or guitar playing skills?
My old favourite has a bit here that makes it easier to understand.
Click to expand...

I'm just a vocalist. Never really attempted to play anything before. I don't have any instruments.
I thought about just getting a cheapy mini midi keyboard, but I presume playing it via computer and recording vocals at the same time would cause massive latency?
This would not be for live use. There's no live music scene around here.
In my head, I see myself using it for harmonies on a variety of choruses. Just to try something different and spice things up.
For me, California Love is probably the most catchy rap track ever made.
I attribute this to the talk box effect on the chorus. It's just really cool.
It's been ages since I've seen someone use this effect on a popular song and just thought maybe I could try it out.
It's boring doing the same thing/style for too long.
But I don't want to spend $400+ and it be too complicated to figure out.
Especially with my lack of skill in playing a instrument.
It's surprising there isn't a good plugin effect for this.
I found some that sort sound like it, but it doesn't have the ups/downs that really create the exciting sound.
Maybe there are good plugins and I just haven't stumbled onto them yet.
It's surprising that no music manufacture makes a small portable piano/talk box combo for live play.
 
Ah - if you cannot play, then forget it. What you hear is 90% musicianship - if you are a singer, and cannot play the sound source - whatever it is, you have, being honest, no hope. You are thinking the key thing is the voice, when all your mouth does is shape a sound - that sound is vital. Even in a computer (and latency isn't an issue) you need the music to which you add the effect. A Non-singer who plays guitar would be brilliant. A singer who can't play is a show stop. Look at it like a guitarist with a wah-wah pedal - they play the guitar and then move the pedal in sympathy with the music. Nobody ever says they play a wah-wah.
 
You could use a Talkbox with a cheap Casio from Walmart. You just need sound, and there's nothing really special needed. Get something with 50 voices and try them all. Your sound is coming from a puny speaker and going through about 8 ft of 1/2 inch rubber hose. The vast majority of the sound is going to be affected by the way you move your mouth. You can use a distorted sound to get a bit gritty, or use something pure to make it smooth, but you'll probably lose 90% of the nuance of the sound.

The other process used is the vocorder. It's a totally different beast. You actually have to "talk" the words into a mic and then it processes the pitch, like an heavy duty autotune. The vocorder can do multiple sounds, so you can actually do chords with a single word. Boss makes the VO-1, Electro Harmonics makes a couple of Vocorder boxes. Its generally more like the autotune robot voice, and some do instant pitch correction for live vocals. An actual vocorder keyboard will be relatively expensive, since you're essentially making a synth with special capability. Figure in $500 to $1000 range for a "real" one.

There are dozens of videos on Youtube demonstrating the talkbox and the various vocorders. Vocorder plugins are available.

 
... and what Rod just said is 100% true. Your instrument provides the pitch, your mouth just provides the words. Without the pitch you have nothing.
 
If you want to experiment for free? have you a small loudspeaker of any kind - bluetooth type things? Stick one inside a plastic box - like an ice cream tub - and get a bit of garden hose. Poke a hole through, jam in the hose and stick it in your mouth. Play some music, and put your phone up to your lips and record what comes out. Old headphones with gaffer tape holding in the tube work great too.
 
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