natural sounding mixes?

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sirslurpee

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So while listening to something probably done in a professional studio with expensive mics and a protools setup, i thought about it, and i came up with the question.. I have 'decent' mics, and I'm fairly sure I'm doing all of my tracking correctly, but for some reason everything sounds unnatural. I'm working on a project with someone right now, where it's just acoustic guitar and vocals, and I can't get either to sound right. They are both kind of quiet, they seem to have decent ambience, but for some reason it almost sounds like the tracks don't have that certain punch that a good mixed song has. The only way I can really explain it is everything sounds unnatural. I can throw a little compression on there, and it helps a bit, but I can't seem to be able to get things up to volume without peaking out the mix.. Also I'm using cubase LE and i am kind of limited on effects plugins. Should I try to get a good pack of plugins and try some different compression and EQ? Is it a problem with the tracking, maybe my premp sucks or I am just not laying things down right? I've always been able to get decent tracks and an okay mix but I really would like to step it up a notch so that the next time I put something on disc people hear it and are like "wow what studio did you use to record this?"
If any of you guys can please help me I would appreciate it a lot...
 
Without the benefit of actually hearing what it is you're trying to do ... and what your point of reference is when you say words like "unnatural," it is almost impossible to give anything even remotely resembling any useful advice. Just too many unknown variables.

Based on your description, one of my first thoughts is phase problems. That certainly would cause things to sound "unnatural." But I don't even know if you're tracking in stereo, or if you're tracking accoustic and vocals simultaneously or separate, etc.

My recommendation would be to go to the MP3 clinic and post examples. Be VERY detailed in your explanations as to how you are tracking it. And from there, ask for people's suggestions on how to track it or mix it better. Without any details on how you're tracking ... and without being able to hear what you're describing, it's all just random guesses and stabs in the dark.

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For the vocal track it sounds like you might not be dampening the room. So your recordings of vox always have some room noise in them.

Eck
 
Hearing the problem sure would help. It could be that the source or the room is the problem or it could be that your aren't tracking correctly... bad mics, preamps, converters? Could be your tracking too hot(good chance this is the problem)? Try averaging the incoming signal at -18dbFS.

Find a sweet spot in the house where your playing sounds good (hallway, stairwell etc...) and track it there. If there's no improvement, try replacing the gear one piece at a time.
 
NYMorningstar said:
Could be your tracking too hot(good chance this is the problem)? Try averaging the incoming signal at -18dbFS.

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Click to expand...

I would suspect this as well . I have overcome tracking to hot. and also mixing to hot.

Another thing i have noticed is that sometimes if your tracking guitar sometimes you can loose dynamics of the song because your chuggin along through it without the other instruments or vocal. So maybe try some automation on the faders in the mix. Nothing real drastic. Also take advantage of grouping tracks in the software while using automation.
 
I didn't want to come in sounding like the broken record I sound like with the "tracking too hot" thing, but I'm glad some others did. IMO, it's the easiest way to completely screw up a recording at ther very first step.
 
Honestly... I think you guys are right with the whole tracking too hot thing. I was first told when I started recording that I had to get them as hot as possible without clipping but then someone told me that with digital interfaces it doesn't have to be that hot, but I didn't know -18db was around where I should be tracking at. That helps a lot! I usually bring things up between -11 and -6db so I'll try taking the gain down a notch and see if it helps!
Thank you guys so much!
Oh, and I'll post an mp3 in the clinic section in a little while....
 
the funny thing about all this is that modern recording institutions teach their students to track as hot as possible without clipping in the digital domain...then when they start working on large format consoles, going to tape, everything is tracked at lower levels (and they don't explain why)?? these schools don't emphasize anything related to optimum tracking levels, as they relate to different pieces of gear....they just say "track as hot as possible without clipping.
 
too me, natural or unatural always starts with mic choice and placement. i'm amazed how much more 'right" an re20 can sound next to an sm7 and vice versa.

i also can play with a pair of socks in a corner all day...so i'm easily amused.

laters.

Mike
 
sirslurpee said:
Honestly... I think you guys are right with the whole tracking too hot thing. I was first told when I started recording that I had to get them as hot as possible without clipping but then someone told me that with digital interfaces it doesn't have to be that hot, but I didn't know -18db was around where I should be tracking at. That helps a lot! I usually bring things up between -11 and -6db so I'll try taking the gain down a notch and see if it helps!
Click to expand...
Without getting "long" - It's not neccessarily a particular *digital* level you should be shooting for - You should be trying not to overdrive your front end. 0dBVU on your input chain is "generally" where you want to be floating around.

It just so happens that most modern converters are calibrated to around -18dBFS... So, if you don't have VU meters on your input chain, -18dBFS is a pretty nice place to be. A strong signal, with a reasonable amount of headroom. I generally go even lower when possible. Headroom = Good room. Your converters don't care that much about the levels - They're just there to digitize the signal from the input chain. But your input chain will thank you for not overdriving it by giving you a much clearer, more focused, less distorted, less "pinched" sound - And a lot of people don't notice it with one or two tracks. But when you stack a dozen (or two) together, it can make a fairly dramatic difference.

"Fairly dramatic" - More like "night and day."
 
when it comes to mixing, its very easy to mix each instrument good, instead of mixing a good mix. If you got two guitars, bass and vocals and they are sounding GRRRREAAAAT individual the whole mix sounds probably unnatural. For example I have a bassguitar in a recent mixed track thats perfect in the whole shabang but when I solo it its thin and muddy, really. If the whole sounds come out unnatural and I have no way to rerecord I go through it with high and lowpass filters - it helps alot cutting frequensies that you don´t need in the whole shabang ;)
 
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