Myth Busting Update

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SouthSIDE Glen

SouthSIDE Glen

independentrecording.net
A week or two ago there was a subtopic in a thread here in this forum that I'd like to update, but I can't now find which thread that was :o . So for the sake of record I'd like to post the update here. For those who keep up on the industry and find this old news, I apologize. But you know me, I love busting Internet myths ;) ...

The question was raised as to why the Mackie HR624 and HR824 monitors were being blown out at low prices by everybody and their brother right now. The (usual and predictable) response was brought up by somebody that it was because Mackie was losing sales and face because of a quality control issue because their stuff was now being assembled (not manufactured, mind you) overseas. This was the line given by some retail sales hacks at places like Guitar Center and such.

I replied that was probably a bunch of bullshit - the kind usually spit out by salesfolk when they want to steer you to a higher-priced item and don't have the talent to do so without having to slander the sale item - and that the across-the-board price reduction was most likely because either everybody wanted to clear out inventory space and budget for some new models coming down the pike from Mackie, or because Mackie had floded the pipeline with inventory that had to be cleared out. Usually that second reason is because of the first reason.

Well, I just read a little blurb in the May issue of Mix magazine* that confirmed that new versions of their monitors are indeed on the way. This is exactly why the old ones are being closed out at great prices now.

The 624 and the 824 are being replaced by the 624mkII and the 824mkII. As far as I can tell from the blurb, the only real differences between the mkIIs and the originals are that the new ones have a cast aluminum enclosure with a curved "Zero-Edge" faceplate and baffle design. The actual loudspeaker elements appear to be the same. No mention was made if there are any amplifier differences, but I figure if there were, it would have been mentioned in the blurb.

* P.S. I strongly recommend everybody check out the May Mix rag. It's a special issue on hearing and health issues related to the audio engineering gig. For those who say one should always mix at or around 85dBSPL and get high before mixing to "boost their creativity", I recommend they read the interviews with four of the top engineers in the business in there where they discuss the fallacies of both of those ideas in no uncertain terms.

G.
 
interesting move on the inclosure. Perhaps it will kill some of the resonance if the cab is thick enough or the alloy is right.



F.S.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
and that the across-the-board price reduction was most likely because either everybody wanted to clear out inventory space and budget for some new models coming down the pike


I never saw your original discussion about this, but this is ALWAYS my first guess when a company reduces prices. Especially for a company who has had a product like the 824/624s on the market for so long...and because of how reputable they are (I hate to say industry standard...but they're pretty damn close to it).

This happened with the Tascam US-2400 as well. They reduced in price by half all of a sudden with no warning. I scooped one up quickly and sure enough they have been discontinued at all the stores. Then I ran across a "myth" about the reason being is they were using toxic solder or something....I still don't believe it. And now Tascam has released the FireOne. A slimmed down interface/control surface. I still think they'll release a larger format soon. Hopefully to correct some of the negatives of the US-2400.

Anyway....nice myth busting ;)

Although, I have to ask....mkII?? Maybe I'm daft, but does mkII stand for something? Or are they stealing a name from MOTU? :confused:


edit---

btw, I just looked at sweetwater, and they're selling the mk2 already (no pics though). What's the prices the original 824/624's are going for?
 
bennychico11 said:
Although, I have to ask....mkII?? Maybe I'm daft, but does mkII stand for something? Or are they stealing a name from MOTU? :confused:



QUOTE]

In other industries mk has been used to abriviate Mark. For instance Ruger fire arms has used it in that scinario.

F.S.
 
bennychico11 said:
Although, I have to ask....mkII?? Maybe I'm daft, but does mkII stand for something? Or are they stealing a name from MOTU? :confused:
As FS mentioned, the abbreviation "mk" or the longer "mark" (which is usually how "mk" is actually pronouned) goes waaay back before MOTU. Rememver the Lincoln Mk series automobiles - the ones with the distinctive spare tire hump on the trunk lid? Those started at the Lincoln MkII in the 60s (I think) and lasted through a couple of decades of models through the MkVIII.

Any of you old timers remember the Wilkinson MkII razor advertised on TV back in the 60s or 70s?

The designaton goes back at least to the 40s or 50s where there was an old tube computer designated the Mark4 (again, if my dusty memory is working right.) I wouldn't be suprised if it's usage goes back even farther than that.
BennyChico11 said:
btw, I just looked at sweetwater, and they're selling the mk2 already (no pics though). What's the prices the original 824/624's are going for?
There is a small picture of the front of the 824mkII with that Mix blurb (page 107, bottom right.) I'm not sure if they have that on their website yet or not...I'll let someone else do the legwork on that one ;)

I've seen the 824s selling for $450-$500 each if I remember right, and the 624s selling for about $700/pr, again if I remember right. The prices might be even lower on the originals now if the mkIIs are already available.

In that other thread (I still can't find or remember which one) someone had just bought a pair of the 624s on clearance sale; maybe they'll see this thread and remind us of the deal they got.

G.
 
flatfinger said:
Intresting, MF doesn't seem to be "blowing them out" . The 649 is the same , old or new. The 824 are $100 difference.
Considering I paid $749ea for my 824s 8 years ago, the $499 price is quite a savings. I do find it quite interesting that the mkIIs are selling for only $100 more. If they perform at least as good as the originals, that's still a great price IMHO. But it remains to be seen how their performance actually compares, I guess. I remember the old Bose 301 bookshelf speakers, which didn't sound too bad for the price, but the 301mkIIs (yes, Bose used the "mark" designation too, now that I think of it :) ) sounded like absolute horseshit in comparison to the original design. We'll have to see how the new Mackies play out.

The same price on the 624s and the 624mkIIs is even more interesting. This is pure speculation, but it could simply be that MF does not have any more original 624s, so listing them and the mkIIs at the same price makes the new mkIIs look that much more attractive. Wouldn't be the first time that gambit has been used...

EDIT: I just noticed that Mackie is actually calling the new ones "mk2" and not "mkII". A force-of-habit mistake on my part. Sorry :( .

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
As FS mentioned, the abbreviation "mk" or the longer "mark" (which is usually how "mk" is actually pronouned) goes waaay back before MOTU. Rememver the Lincoln Mk series automobiles - the ones with the distinctive spare tire hump on the trunk lid? Those started at the Lincoln MkII in the 60s (I think) and lasted through a couple of decades of models through the MkVIII.


ah, yes...i guess I've heard of mark...just didn't realize it was abbreviated mk. I guess my age is showing, since I just assumed MOTU was the only one :p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_(designation)
maybe I'll wait a bit to see if the price gets even lower. I've been wanting to get smaller monitors than the ones I use currently. Although I love them, they are pretty damn large for the room/desk.

btw, since we're talking monitors...anyone heard anything about Digidesign's new monitors that was talked about at NAB. I know DIGI gets so much shit here, but from what I've read some are quite excited since PMC is helping to develop them.
 
Cast aluminum enclosure.... sounds cool.

I wonder how they're finished? Hopefully they don't plastic veneer over the aluminim. Or simply paint it. I suspect they'll powder coat them.

What ever the case, a custom job would be cool to see.
Powder coat
Anodized
Chrome plated (bling!! lol)
 
tarnationsauce2 said:
Cast aluminum enclosure.... sounds cool.

I wonder how they're finished? Hopefully they don't plastic veneer over the aluminim. Or simply paint it. I suspect they'll powder coat them.

What ever the case, a custom job would be cool to see.
Powder coat
Anodized
Chrome plated (bling!! lol)
There is a picture of them on the MF link that Flatfinger provided. Looks like they get their decoration advice from the Rolling Stones :D.

G.
 
Wow, they do look nice. If they manage to sound even better than the original, they'll be a real hard to beat monitor for that price.
 
bennychico11 said:
This happened with the Tascam US-2400 as well. They reduced in price by half all of a sudden with no warning. I scooped one up quickly and sure enough they have been discontinued at all the stores. Then I ran across a "myth" about the reason being is they were using toxic solder or something....I still don't believe it.

It wasn't so much that the solder was toxic...Last year (I think it was last year, maybe the year before) a law was passed in Europe defining the the allowable lead content of solder in circuitry. The US-2400's lead content was above this limit, so the unit had to be discontinued.

This law wasn't passed with regard to safety of the user, and the solder is not toxic to the user. It is more related to the environmental impact of disposing of the unit. This is why the law was passed, to regulate the amount of lead we throw into landfill sites, as obviously it is a pollutant.
 
legionserial said:
It wasn't so much that the solder was toxic...Last year (I think it was last year, maybe the year before) a law was passed in Europe defining the the allowable lead content of solder in circuitry. The US-2400's lead content was above this limit, so the unit had to be discontinued.

This law wasn't passed with regard to safety of the user, and the solder is not toxic to the user. It is more related to the environmental impact of disposing of the unit. This is why the law was passed, to regulate the amount of lead we throw into landfill sites, as obviously it is a pollutant.
Interesting story. What about the rest of the Tascam line, though? Was the 2400 the only model with a circuit board outsourced to a manufacturer using that kind or that amount of solder? There might be truth behind the whole European lead law thing. But to use that as a reason for discontinuing a single model in a product line still leaves me a little dubious. Though I'll accept the story as possibly completly true.

I'd also accept as entirly probable that even if that story were 100% true, that once the disco price hit the streets it got embelleshed by more than one front-line sales person (and especially competing sales reps) into the Toxic Tascam Tale: you'd better not buy this thing, it could be hazardous to your health :rolleyes: .

G.
 
Brand X cell phones give you brain tumors!!!!!!
(so would listening to some of my first mixes!!! :p :p )


:D
:D :D
:D :D :D
 
OK, now I am totally confused.

Here's the link to Mackie's site for the monitors:
http://www.mackie.com/products/hrmk2/splash.html

At the end of the first paragraph it says "And the high-gloss piano black wood cabinet not only looks hot, but adds just that bit of warmth so your sound is true—not sterile."

So, maybe it's the baffle that's aluminum now? I don't know what the baffle is on mine (HR824), looks like a sort of plastic veneer.

And wood adds warmth to the sound? WAIT A MINUTE.... Wasn't there a company that was making speakers with wooden cones? So they'd sound warm?... uh.. ugh.. oh... hmmm... maybe there is some truth to that?

Sorry Glen, looks like your myth busting thread just raised more myths... :D:D:D

Edit; Duh, it actually says right there in the second sentence "The precisely engineered curvature of the new cast aluminum Zero Edge Baffle™"... soo yup... aluminum baffle, wooden case.
 
as a side note last night i was talking to a friend at SLM who's looking for work like the rest of their R+D people.... they will be let go by the end of the month.... and the rumor is mackies people are'nt very far behind them.... both of them being owned by loud technologies....
 
noisewreck said:
Sorry Glen, looks like your myth busting thread just raised more myths... :D:D:D
Well, any new myth is either because Mackie told Mix the wrong thing or that Mix got the wording wrong. Or the Mackie website is wrong. Here's exactly what it said in Mix:

"Each [the HR624mk2 and the HR824mk2] has a cast aluminum enclosure with a Zero Edge Baffle design."
It's impossible to tell from those pictures. That could be extremely high-gloss and poly'd wood with a very elegant rounded shape (expensive to do in wood) or it could be cast aluminum. Hell from those pictures it could be PVC.
dementedchord said:
and the rumor is
Oh, man, see this is just what I mean. Rumors are almost as bad as myths and equally as worthless. You cut one down and another one tries popping up in it's place.

Why are so many people so damn attracted to conspiracy theories?

EDIT: Here's another conspiracy theory starter for y'all...

Flatfinger's MusiciansFriend link now has the mk2s removed, and the page for the 824mk2 on that site now says "We're sorry. This product has been discontinued." LOL, the world's shortest product cycle.

OTOH, here's what Sweetwater - the only company that can't supply a picture yet - says on their 824mk2 page: "We've confirmed this item will ship soon from Mackie and should arrive in our warehouse the week of 5/27. Go ahead, place your order now. We will ship it immediately, the very same day we receive it from Mackie."

Sometimes the Internet is just too damn efficient for it's own good.

G.
 
Last edited:
hey my rumors a good one...lol... i've known guys at slm for years in R+D and service... service has been gone for a while already... they told this guy to pack his bags... and some guys that earlier moved to mackie are worried big time.... but yeah it's a rumor.... :rolleyes:
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Interesting story. What about the rest of the Tascam line, though? Was the 2400 the only model with a circuit board outsourced to a manufacturer using that kind or that amount of solder? There might be truth behind the whole European lead law thing. But to use that as a reason for discontinuing a single model in a product line still leaves me a little dubious. Though I'll accept the story as possibly completly true.

I don't know the specifics of Mackie or Tascam, but the Euro law (RoHS) is very real, and it took effect last year. Essentially, not only do you have to use lead-free solder, every component in a device has to be lead-free (99.9%). That can be a problem for certain components that cannot be sourced with a lead-free alternative. AT has removed the AT4060 from the Euro market for that reason; it was confirmed by an AT rep on another board (GS, I recall).

So it is not inconceivable that was the reason.
 
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