My Zoom H4n Just arrived(Should I still go for Reaper software guys?)

[norskdrum]

Hello Everyone,
Bit of a quiet period with regards to me posting any updates on my progress.Have had one or two other more pressing things to contend with

Well Finally the Zoom Hn4 arrived..and It looks great...I now have time to read the manual (again) this time in hard copy format!

I am also waiting for the Remote.I put the Cubase dvd in the drive and was lost quite frankly..went to their site and it all seemed a bit of a maze to me.....not only that many of you kind folk had suggested using Reaper..but have yet to get around to even visiting their web page ...you all seem to think reaper is the way to go..especially foir someone like me.?any additional thoughts valued.

I tried to buy a pair of se 2 Mics..but did not sucseed,the guy seemed reticent to sell to me???maybe because I live in Norway..no matter I think the race is between the SE1s & Octavias mk12 stereo pairAgain there is no real rush on my part..the room comes on slowly have still to have the parket floor layed..which will be on 5mm thermal/acoustic underlay (what ever that entails?)

I was advised to use some from of cloud suspension from the roof filled with rock wool?But to be honest I do think it may all be a bit to much seeing I am only ever going to record my percussion lessons..I am though, convinced of the need for the extra two mics to compliment the Hn4s mics..noticed there was an external power slot for mic power? me thinks..is this correct..? IE If I add two mics to the zoom, would i ideally require extra power additional to the Hn4?

advice appreciated,probably just misunderstood as usual

anyway enough for now

all the best Steve

 

[xcrunner28]

I was looking into the H4n and it looks to be a brilliant tool from what I saw. To answer your question about reaper just go ahead and download the demo version, it won't hurt to try it and it's fully functional, and also you don't need external power to use 2 more microphones, but if you are going to use phantom power that'll drain the battery real quick. My suggestion if you're just recording drums is to set up the H4n 5-10 feet away from the drums and angle the stereo mics so that the center of the device is pointed directly at the kick and snare, this will help to put the kick and snare in the center of your stereo image and pick up the toms/cymbals. Then I'd use two dynamic mics on the Snare and Kick to help fill in the sound. But those are just my suggestions so feel free to experiment and find out what works best for your kit.

Edit: Also I forgot to post a video I found about the H4n, it seemed pretty informative
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXQDsptXHr0&feature=related

 

[moresound]

Yeah throw away cubase and down load Reaper.

 

[chris2002rock]

Wait a minute, before you spend more money, go ahead and demo Reaper, which I like very much, but I don't think you are ready to make that decision yet. You should tell us a bit more about your comfort level with multitrack software and recording in general before a meaningful recommendation can be offered. I'm going to use descriptive language rather than specific technology jargon.

If you are recording audio, the question becomes what will you do with it? Cubase AFAIK (and Reaper) are "Digital Audio Workstation" tools to integrate audio recordings and MIDI (or just one), allowing you to use loops and projects with global settings which allows you to automate the creation IF you use those feature elements. If not, you'll just get frustrated.

Start off imagining the software as a digital version of a tape recorder. Now that you have a recording in there, the question is what will you do with it in terms of your final product, and how will you get from a to z? Your techniques and skills will drive specific workflow decisions.


Creating loops (creating rules for each measure for example) allows rules based creation you might say. In other words, in your tape recorder, the thing just plays along the timeline. If you create a global project file with MIDI rules for timing, you can create a master template that will allow using chopped up sections of your recordings, for example you can take your riffs and have them repeating according to the rules of the project file. This also helps set up your drums, and I suppose you could say the drums are the most compelling reason to use MIDI if you have no live drum tracks. Even if you do record live drums, there are still benefits to looping them too. If you have no live drummer and you wish to use drum patterns, I would say that at some point sooner rather than later you should go ahead and start learning about MIDI.

If that is the point you get to, I would then say yes, check out Reaper because of its documentation and user community is probably going to be better for a neophyte to learn, but you need lots of patience until you get it. I'm about 3 months in to this process myself, and I have been a musician all my life, and have computer experience since early 1990s (started recording on Windows in 2004). I understand MIDI in principle, but I am not clear on how any of these different choices work, because the tools I want are only available on Cakewalk Sonar X1 Studio (I have an OEM version that came with hardware and I bought Guitar Tracks Pro)...but I might be able to figure out how to accomplish what I need to if, IF I learn more about the tools I have.

I'm happy to keep in touch with things I find along the way, and explaining things to others helps me learn better as well, so hit me up any time. In fact I'll even share my notes with you as that gives me a reason to focus more on clarity. What I normally do when I need to buy something is create my own research reports and summaries. I have lots of notes that might apply to the things you need. The first thing you need to learn is how MIDI changes your workflow options. Think of how a computer allows random access, and you might even download a copy of Sony Vegas video editing software, because the workflow with video editing software is very much built like the basic DAWs, and some DAWs even add video options, so we have some conversion here. But usig it with video helps you see visually how the data can be arranged, and it will perhaps be clearer when you then start to figure out your workflow in audio.

IMO, the biggest confusion for a new user to the DAW world is that MIDI and looping have made workflow so flexible that people gravitate towards their own preferences, but this makes it harder to pass on training to others. You kind of have to take it slow at first until you understand what all of your options are before you can decide how you want to proceed, and because there are so many options, you can't even think of the right questions to ask and the experienced people can't really start with zero and say "ok, follow this list" because there really is no ideal approach.

What I would like to see is maybe a thread discussing these things, to give people a reason to contemplate and justify their approaches, and we might get some good lessons from that, but I have never seen such a discussion and I find MIDI a lot harder than it was teaching myself video production on nonlinear video editing machines. Let me say that again, learning how to build music in MIDI is harder than video editing.

As long as I'm on this topic, I'll add one more thing. I think culturally we do not encourage peopel to ask questions. I think that most MIDI masters who learned on their own can't possibly remember how they built their skills in some way that they could explain. Some additional reasons are that many artists have no problem in letting the process influence their final results. This means that they will start wherever they have early success. You figure out drum patterns, experiment for a while, figure out how to add loops of your guitar chords and build like this, this is a good way to learn, but people some times prefer to build their vision (audio vision), and can be impeded by their inability to accomplish necessary ingredients. So just in new users you have this immediate dichotomy, how do you want to learn? Do you want to allow experimentation to shape your end result, or do you have a specific composition in mind that requires you to figure out specific workflow tasks?


If you remember nothing else, remember Hans Christian Andersen, the Emperor's New Clothes. Will you let the naked king walk by, or will you raise your hand and ask the embarrassing questions? Don't let the naked emperors deceive you. It's not that easy to learn, and we all have different approaches because of all these variables, so you have to decide how important those factor are. Do you mind just farting around just to learn what things do? Then try to build anything, any sound, tweak it just to learn. If you need lots of structure, you should probably instead get Cakewalk or something similar because you can buy lots of training material to learn in linear fashion before you know what your options are in terms of workflow. Workflow used to be linear because that was all that was possible. Now the possibilities are so wide in choices that it makes it very difficult for the beginners.

 

[norskdrum]

H4n....time to get the set up just right..hopefully

Hello xcrunner28's & my old friend Moresound...good to hear from you both..

you don't need external power to use 2 more microphones, but if you are going to use phantom power that'll drain the battery real quick.

If I recall phantom Power is used mainly for concenser mics is this correct? as you read I am looking at the Octavias & the SE1s Stereo pairs I had good feedback on these two.I myself know only the little I have read on the subject,Helped by some terrific feedback to my previous threads...both on this forum & elsewhere.
Good point re the batteries..I doubt I will ever use the battereis will have it plugged in the mains..99.9%of the time...

xcrunner28's;as Moresound knows from my other threads I am not an accoustic drummer..I will be learning Latin percussion in my particular case
Pair of Congas + a set of Timbales (as it stands at the moment) + a rack with a variety of of smaller items. the room is only 3.3 mtrs x 2mtrs X 2.70 High so as you can see there will be quite a bit of making do! & compromise. As I said I only intend to record my lessons,I really do not wish to get in to mixing/dubbing e.t.c. as long as the sound I produce is acceptable,then that will be fine.I always liked the idea that A) I could recorde directly to the laptop and/or to the SDCH card.which offers me good flexibility..as besides learning from online Video & DVD..I also intend in time to set up a web cam link where hopefully I will be receiving online lessons? all this is in the future..a lot to set up in the meantime including,not least the room which is being transformed for me from a celler box room with little natural light to my own little studio(little being the operative word here)!

For those members who have not read my previouse threads..I am new to all this but folk like moresound,Bob..and others have being superb,in there kind and helpful advice and suggestions.

Thanks Chris for your very interesting comments(Below)..I think I have covered the part of your reply that relates directly to me? hope so anyway.I have no expereince what so ever with DAWs I understand the bulk of your reply is aimed at the wider Home recording Fraternity so I will bow to there knowledge of these things and wish you well in your own recording adventure

chris2002rock

Wait a minute, before you spend more money, go ahead and demo Reaper, which I like very much, but I don't think you are ready to make that decision yet. You should tell us a bit more about your comfort level with multitrack software and recording in general before a meaningful recommendation can be offered. I'm going to use descriptive language rather than specific technology jargon.

If you are recording audio, the question becomes what will you do with it? Cubase AFAIK (and Reaper) are "Digital Audio Workstation" tools to integrate audio recordings and MIDI (or just one), allowing you to use loops and projects with global settings which allows you to automate the creation IF you use those feature elements. If not, you'll just get frustrated.]

Please keep the comments & suggestions coming
I have the time to hopefully get this just right,allowing of course for the limitations listed above

all the best to you all

Cheers Steve

ps: I must stop calling the zoom an HN4

 

[moresound]

Hello Steve

Where was that gentleman from that was reluctant to sell you a pair of Se2's?

 

[moresound]

HN4!!!! Audio dyslexia?

 

[norskdrum]

Hi there
Good to hear from you
The guy was selling SE Electronics SE1A Matched Pair on ebay at least 3 x to my reconing? but did not sell,I made an offer and in the end I would have paid his initial asking price? and he would have saved ebay fees. but he seemed reluctant to sell to me..why? I know not..but there you have it.I even said name your price for the stereo bar,Mounts & Box (which he said he had)but did not wish to sell,which is fair enough..just thought I would ask.
As I think I said to Bob..the only thing about them was no box or bar or mounts..just the 2 x mics +shock thingy.
Just looked again at your question "where was the gentleman from" answer Tunbridge Wells Kent

all the best Steve