My wish list

I

IvyMike

New member
Hey, guys!

Be gentle, 'tis my first post.

I decided to post this under Newbies, cause (1) I'm a newbie and (2) it's related to almost all other forums.

I already posted this Limitless Studios forum, but I would like as much feedback as possible, so here it goes ...

I'm gonna give you a list on the stuff I'm going to buy somewhere in the beginning of next year and I'd like to have some feedback: do you like/dislike anything on the list and why?

If it makes any difference: I intend to record my own music and play everything myself. I do have a band but we're nowhere near ready for recording.

Here's the stuff I already have:
- TAMA Rockstar drum kit with Zildjian ZXT rock cymbal set
- Gibson Les Paul Traditional
- Marshall JCM800 + 1960AV
- Hohner acoustic guitar
- our bassist's bass

The wish list:

Instruments:
- going to invest in some quality Zildjian cymbals, before I start buying studio gear - most likely K series and A series combination
- I was thinking about getting a small midi keyboard, just to punch in vocal melodies and stuff - any suggestions?

Computer:
- (most likely) a HP pavillion dv7 (approx. 4GB RAM; approx. 2,5 GHz processor). I know a desktop is more recommended for recording purposes, but at the moment that's not an option, cause I need a new laptop for work. But I might invest in a dedicated external hard drive.

Interface: M-AUDIO PROFIRE 2626. Wanna keep my options open in case I decide to go PT. Will be using Reaper though.

Mics:
- SHURE DMK57-52 4 (set cont. 3x57s and 1x beta 52A) for drums
- AUDIX i-5 for drums (snare or one of the toms) and electric guitar
- 2 x RODE NT5s for drums (OH) and acoustic guitar
- SHURE KSM32 for vocals, room mic for drums, acoustic guitar (first I was going to go with the budget studio's choice RODE NT1a, but from what I understand the KSM32 is good enough to be compared with some of the more high-end mics, and it's only a few 100€ more).

Preamps:
Might get FMR Audio's RNP somewhere in the future if I'm not totally happy with profire's preamps. Maybe something really high-end in the very distant future. :)

Cables:
Whatever I can find, not the cheapest but also not too expensive. Feel free to make some suggestions.

Stands:
Probably gonna need two or three at the most. Same as cables - not too cheap/expensive - please advise.

Plugins/outboard:
Not gonna use any outboard gear in the beginning, only plugins and stuff I find on the world wide web.


So, I'd like to hear your take on things. Especially if you own/have used any of the gear mentioned. And also let me know, if you think I forgot anything.

Thanks,
Mike
 
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Hey IvyMike, split your post up amongst the various sub categories in HR, you will get a better response. :cool:
 
Sounds like you're on top of things pretty much. As for ProTools, unless you're working with some one else that already uses it and you need to be compatible, I wouldn't bother. Reaper is great software and there's plenty of others that don't tie you to specific hardware if you don't like Reaper (which I can't imagine you wont)

A couple things you didn't mention... mics? Do you have any? You're gonna need a bunch for drums- probably a pair of SD condensers for overheads, a purpose built kick mic and some mics for snare and toms would be typical. I'd look at the ES57s for toms- cheap and sound pretty good. AKG D112 or Shure Beta52 would be common kick mics. I like an audix I5 on snare. Actually, I like an Audix I5 for guitar cabs too.

What kind of amp is your bass player using? If it sounds good, you can probably just take the direct out from the amp and record that. I played with a guy that had a Tech21 Sansamp and we used that as a direct box, which sounded pretty good.

Also, monitors. I'd set aside at least $500+ for a good set of monitors- I assume you're doing rock and roll. I'd go for an active set (built in power amps) with an 8" driver. Along with monitors, you're going to need to treat for acoustics in your space- figure another couple hundred for materials if you DIY. Stay away from foam. You want rigid fiberglass- check out the studio building forum here.

Welcome to HR
 
@Kingofpain678: what makes you say that? IMO they're pretty informative and their production skills are also pretty good from what I can tell by their material I've listend to.

@CFox: Good advice, tnx. I will disperse my questions into related forums, but in the meantime, everybody feel free to reply to this post as well.

@:Jeff_D: Yep, RN'R is my poison of choice. :cool:
SHURE DMK57-52 is a drum microphone set including three Shure SM57s and one Shure Beta 52a. And the Rode NT5's are the SDCs I intend to use as overheads.
Yeah, I totally forgot about bass recording gear, thanks. Our bass player is using an old Ibanez amp and it's pretty rundown so I don't think it'll be usefull for recording. It does have a line output, so I might try that. I was thinking about using the instrument input on the profire and getting a DI box later. Maybe Countryman? Heard only good things about it.
And of course monitors. Maybe Yamaha HS80M or KRK RP5 ROKIT.
And as for acoustic treatment, I have a dedicated music room (can't call it a studio, cause I don't have any recording gear yet, hehe) coverd in styrofoam, covered in egg cartons. I'll wait and see how it will behave in recording situations and later get (or build) some acoustic pannels.
 
IvyMike said:
@Kingofpain678: what makes you say that? IMO they're pretty informative and their production skills are also pretty good from what I can tell by their material I've listend to.

@CFox: Good advice, tnx. I will disperse my questions into related forums, but in the meantime, everybody feel free to reply to this post as well.

@:Jeff_D: Yep, RN'R is my poison of choice. :cool:
SHURE DMK57-52 is a drum microphone set including three Shure SM57s and one Shure Beta 52a. And the Rode NT5's are the SDCs I intend to use as overheads.
Yeah, I totally forgot about bass recording gear, thanks. Our bass player is using an old Ibanez amp and it's pretty rundown so I don't think it'll be usefull for recording. It does have a line output, so I might try that. I was thinking about using the instrument input on the profire and getting a DI box later. Maybe Countryman? Heard only good things about it.
And of course monitors. Maybe Yamaha HS80M or KRK RP5 ROKIT.
And as for acoustic treatment, I have a dedicated music room (can't call it a studio, cause I don't have any recording gear yet, hehe) coverd in styrofoam, covered in egg cartons. I'll wait and see how it will behave in recording situations and later get (or build) some acoustic pannels.
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I definitely wouldnt skimp on the monitors. AS far as getting a mix that will translate to the rest of the world, I'd say your monitors and mixing environment are more important than just about anything else you listed up there. And a 5" driver isn't gonna cut it for mixing rock and roll. You'll have a LOT going on in the bass frequencies that you're gonna need to be able to hear in order to get good mixes. Actually i think there's a current tread around here now where the guy got the KRK5s and he hated em.

And, I'll save you the wait on your current room treatment. Its gonna be bad and it'll have to go. Plus, that shit is a bigtime fire hazard. Neither of those things will give you any real acoustic benefit and neither of those things are intended to be hung on a wall.
 
Jeff_D said:
\ And a 5" driver isn't gonna cut it for mixing rock and roll. You'll have a LOT going on in the bass frequencies that you're gonna need to be able to hear in order to get good mixes. Actually i think there's a current tread around here now where the guy got the KRK5s and he hated em.
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You dont need bass frequencies in anything other than the bass guitar and and the kick. So roll it off in everything else, if you still dont get the detail ( ? ) in the lower range you want, use headphones for that aspect.

Bass is not the most important aspect in a mix, its everything else.
 
^ I'll go ahead and disagree with that. By the virtue of any small room and the limitations of moist speakers, the part of the audible frequency range you're likely to have the most trouble *hearing* is the bass. Sure you can "roll off" everything else below a certain frequency, but that's a big time compromise IMO. You shouldn't have much trouble hearing and mixing everything else.

As a casual listener, most might not see the significance of the bass freqs in rock and roll (compared to say, beat driven dance music), but as the guy recording and mixing the music, getting the low end right has always been the biggest challenge for me.
 
Jeff_D said:
^ I'll go ahead and disagree with that. By the virtue of any small room and the limitations of moist speakers, the part of the audible frequency range you're likely to have the most trouble *hearing* is the bass. Sure you can "roll off" everything else below a certain frequency, but that's a big time compromise IMO. You shouldn't have much trouble hearing and mixing everything else.

As a casual listener, most might not see the significance of the bass freqs in rock and roll (compared to say, beat driven dance music), but as the guy recording and mixing the music, getting the low end right has always been the biggest challenge for me.
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Well I both casually listen to and mix rock. Part of my process is critically listening to Foo's, Nickleback ( yuck but necessary ) and others. I use a nice FFT to roll isolate the bass at various freqs just to see whats there. Guess what ? Nothing is there aside from the bass gt and the kick.
 
Guess what else. Bass guitar and kick are important.
I stand by my statement. A 5" driver is too small / doesn't have the low end capability to effectively mix rock. :)
 
Use headphones. Or. If you fuck up your bass balance once, chances are you wont do it again.

What volumes do you listen at ?
 
CFox said:
Guess what ?
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Jeff_D said:
Guess what else.
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Abie Seedie, meet E.F. Gee.
IvyMike said:
And as for acoustic treatment, I have a dedicated music room (can't call it a studio, cause I don't have any recording gear yet, hehe) coverd in styrofoam, covered in egg cartons. I'll wait and see how it will behave in recording situations and later get (or build) some acoustic pannels.
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I would advise you go to the studio building forum if you haven't already and look through past archives regarding the subject of 'soundproofing' and 'room treatment' (taking in foam and egg cartons)~ two very different matters that often get fused together in questions and comments. There's plenty friction there but it's worth reading up on, if only for information's sake. In the 60s some pro studios actually used egg cartons but it was then realized that they were pretty worthless for what they were being used for and that's why it's something of a joke subject in any recording circles, pro, amateur or home.
Incidentally, you seem to have done much homework which is great to see.
 
CFox said:
Use headphones. Or. If you fuck up your bass balance once, chances are you wont do it again.

What volumes do you listen at ?
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balance is part of the equation. What if you want to compress, add effects, etc. If you can't *hear* the instruments you're working on, you're totally guessing. I mix on a pair of Event TR8s in a relatively well treated room. I mix between 85-90db as measured from the mix position on my handy radio shack db meter. I don't have too much trouble with the low end these days, but its still the toughest to hear. Before I had decent monitors, and even after I had decent monitors, but before I treated the room, getting a good mix was a guessing game with lots of test cd's burnt. :)
 
that pavilion is a bad choice... the pavilion series has so many problems with reliability:spank:
look to the HP business class instead.
 
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Jeff_D said:
balance is part of the equation. What if you want to compress, add effects, etc. If you can't *hear* the instruments you're working on, you're totally guessing. I mix on a pair of Event TR8s in a relatively well treated room. I mix between 85-90db as measured from the mix position on my handy radio shack db meter. I don't have too much trouble with the low end these days, but its still the toughest to hear. Before I had decent monitors, and even after I had decent monitors, but before I treated the room, getting a good mix was a guessing game with lots of test cd's burnt. :)
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Your setup sounds good and I have no qualms with 8"s ....except that I cant use them at the levels that do them justice. Not a lot of people can. I am in an attached residence and have had troubles with the neighbours with my 8"s so i had to give them away.

I am saying to not rule out 5"s and working with phones. It can be done. :)

I do apply the science to my mixing before I apply the art. Hence the low eq roll off.
 
IvyMike said:
....coverd in styrofoam, covered in egg cartons. I'll wait and see how it will behave in recording situations and later get (or build) some acoustic pannels.
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You might as well ditch the styrofoam and egg cartons. That kinda thing is frowned upon by anyone who knows anything about acoustics. That might absorb some of the really high freq's, but does nothing in the mids/lows, which is where your problem freq's are. It's probably making your room even worse than it'd be without it. You can make a bunch of diy panels out of roxul or similar material for the cost of a single mic.
 
Yes, I've already heard that this whole egg cartons thing is not the best solution. But it's in there (i.e. every single inch of the walls and ceiling) and I worked too hard on it to tear it all down. :) I'll be definitely making some panels in the near future. But I'll really sink my teeth into acoustics when I get my own place, this is still my parent's house.

Question: The room is pretty full to the point I wouldn't even know where to put the panels. :) I'm talking our band's PA system, guitar amps, drums, a couch in a room that's 18 sq. meters (approx. 190 sq. feet). Do you think the panels would make a noticable difference anyway?
 
IvyMike said:
Yes, I've already heard that this whole egg cartons thing is not the best solution. But it's in there (i.e. every single inch of the walls and ceiling) and I worked too hard on it to tear it all down. :) I'll be definitely making some panels in the near future. But I'll really sink my teeth into acoustics when I get my own place, this is still my parent's house.

Question: The room is pretty full to the point I wouldn't even know where to put the panels. :) I'm talking our band's PA system, guitar amps, drums, a couch in a room that's 18 sq. meters (approx. 190 sq. feet). Do you think the panels would make a noticable difference anyway?
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I'm sure you worked hard to put all that stuff on the walls, but this isn't a matter of just being not that great of a solution. Its actually completely useless for acoustics- actually probably worse than having nothing. AND its a huge fire hazard. I'd take that shit down tonight!

The fiberglass or rockwool panels will absolutely make a difference. I'd make a quick drawing of your room and start a thread in the studio building forum. :)
 
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